First timer

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Simon
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:17 am

First timer

Post by Simon » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:22 am

Hello. After many years of procrastination I have finally started on a build. It is my intention to build two redbirds. I am a carpenter joiner and have machinery and hopefully skills enough to create something acceptable. I have studied the book and decided to approach the laying out of plans in a slightly different way. Rather than transfer the curves using carbon paper I have placed the plan on a 10mm ply wood panel and drilled a 1mm hole through the plan to mark the plywood. I then pinned next to these holes and set a curve directly on the ply. This way I believe there is less room for error as there is no hand tracing through the carbon paper. Also I am cutting a template for half the station only and trimming it to match the plan. Once it is spot on I will use it to cut the stations using a bearing guided router cutter and flipping the template. This way the stations should be identical from left to right and as the forms are doubled up the twin form should also be identical as it will be machined from the same template at the same time. I hope to have all the stations fitted onto the strong back by next weekend.
I am also looking at the way staples are used and considering alternatives to that method. The marks left by the staples are due to the blunt cutting edge of the staple breaking the wood fibres. I intend to try using small, thin, very sharp pins which will part the grain rather than breaking the fibres and to avoid the pin heads leaving dents in the wood and to aid the grip of the plank and removal of pins a small scrap piece of hardboard will be used like a washer. Hopefully the grain will recover once the pin is removed. Really looking forward to starting and I am fortunate to have a huge art gallery as a dedicated build space right next door to home, but I have to be out by the end of April. So the pressure is on and I will keep you up to speed on how thing develop. Your thoughts on my thoughts greatly appreciated. Until next time !.

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Cruiser
Posts: 625
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:21 am
Location: Bowmanville, Ontario

Re: First timer

Post by Cruiser » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:05 am

Welcome to the forum and I will follow your build with interest ... we are all very greedy for actual pictures as you go along, so hopefully you will post those.

As long as you are careful your forms will turn out fine, I have traced them with carbon paper, plotted them on graph paper from the CC tables and transferred those graphs to the forms using finishing nails, it all works fine. When ever i do a project i always think about defining "good enough" to allow me to still make decent progress without overdoing the process. As long as you are careful the forms will work out fine and I always like to check each form against the plans when i am finished (and adjust as required).

The strong back is one place you really need to put in the effort, if it is out the entire build is out, so alignment/level/spacing etc there is pretty critical.

If you are planning a pair it may also be useful to think some on the intended use of the boats, for example, if you intend to carry/portage them, weight may be important, so when you consider your wood, weight would be a primary consideration. As your build continues, knowing what your uses and goals are, will allow you to make each decision easier as you have the goals etc already in your mind.

Lastly, if you think the staple holes will bother your sense of wood working, it probably will. The staple holes are a bit of a contentious issue with some folks saying they are fine and others just shaking their heads ... I have found there is mostly 2 camps, those who can see the holes and it bothers them and those that really don't see them (or see them and it doesn't bother them) and it is fine for them. I build without staples and that is your other option for eliminating the holey boat scenario.

The cause of the holes showing is not entirely due to the staples entry into the wood, I have observed a slight staining from the staples after removal, I assume some reaction is going on between the wood and the staples, so each hole also gets "highlighted" a bit, not always, but in a lot of cases.

Looking forward to your build, it will be very rewarding for you.

Brian

Stephen
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Eastern Ontario

Re: First timer

Post by Stephen » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:19 pm

Simon

Someone once posted a method something like you're describing. Interestingly it was five years after he posted it before someone else admitted to trying it. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2606

Unfortunately his photo album is now a dead link but I managed to recover it here. http://web.archive.org/web/20121105084 ... 247549650
He said his jig was barely long enough and should have been longer.
.
The photos have captions, but I couldn't read them with Internet Explorer, my usual browser; I'm using Windows 10. I was able to read them using either Mozilla Firefox or Microsoft Edge, but the captions are still a bit glitchy. (I don't have Google Chrome on my machine but that might work too.)

edit: The captions may be more accessible in this view. Photo 7 has no caption. http://web.archive.org/web/20121105084 ... gTheMolds

Stephen

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Cruiser
Posts: 625
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:21 am
Location: Bowmanville, Ontario

Re: First timer

Post by Cruiser » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:41 am

Hi Simon,

I read that post 5 years ago and although I can see that the method would work, I question whether it is indeed more accurate and would require less time.

Making the bending form, cutting out the form from the plans, attaching that to the mold, rough cutting the mold, then attaching/adjusting/attaching the jig ...to finally router the mold to size. That is a lot of steps, a lot of work and i would question if it would provide any significant improvement in mold accuracy, when compared to a carefully transferred version that is rough cut and sanded to the trace line.

What is being proposed to cut the molds should work and should provide very good accuracy as stated, but the question really is whether that increased accuracy is of any benefit to the build, for the extra effort required to execute it. IMO it won't hurt anything, it will do the job, but it will require more time for the job and not add any significant benefit to the completed mold(s).

I do appreciate that there are different ways to accomplish tasks and that posting them shares the ideas, while they are always interesting and provide food for thought, they aren't always practical for the application and for the individuals shop.


Brian

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Jim Dodd
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:08 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: First timer

Post by Jim Dodd » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:37 pm

Welcome Simon.

There is a lot of info on the internet these days ! Some of it very good.
Canoetripping .net has a very active builder group. I would highly recommend !

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/

Your method of push pins is interesting, but pushing them in might require a lot of effort.

Some stress over staple marks, and that's fine. I've built with staples for years, and they don't bother me.

What I've found to be a helpful thing is to wrap the bottom of the staple gun, with tape, so the staples don't dent the strips. Saves a ton of sanding.

Image

This also makes it a breeze to remove the staples, as they are slightly about the hull, and easy to pull with a Bostitch/Stanley staple puller.
Image


Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

Simon
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:17 am

Re: First timer

Post by Simon » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:59 am

Some excellent advice, thank you. As time progresses I will keep you all in the loop. Error number one today!. Reading the plans in 'the book' for the redbird stem it states the measuerments are the "distance from station 7 to forward edge of inside stem" so I understood that the thickness of the inner stem would need to be removed from the form. Not so I think as it is too short when matched up to station 7. Unless I have misinterpreted the wording. Off to the workshop to put a bit back on!.
Ho hum....

Simon
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:17 am

Re: First timer

Post by Simon » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:58 am

Just worked out why the stem is short on station 7. I thought the stem levelled out parallel with the strongback, but it doesn't, it raises up to the profile line of station 7 minus the thickness of the inner stem. Not such a disaster after all. Easy repair. Onwards and upwards.

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