Seat Hanging Question

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Jeff in Pembroke

Seat Hanging Question

Post by Jeff in Pembroke »

I will soon be drilling the gunnel holes to hang my seats. I'm thinking of countersinking the bolt holes and using tapered plugs to cover the heads. My gunnels are black walnut and I'd like to avoid the look of exposed bolt heads. I'm using stainless steel bolts from Noah's that came with stainless eyelet grommets to support the bolt heads on the surface of the gunnel. If I don't use those grommets will the countersunk bolt head itself be strong enough to support the seats?

Jeff
Rod Tait

countersunk bolts

Post by Rod Tait »

I always countersink the bolts and plug. I llike the clean look.

If you drill a hole the size of the bolt shaft and then drill half way through with a larger bit just big enough for the bolt head to firmly be driven into the hole, it should almost seat itself. You can also fill the hole with slightly thickened epoxy to set the head so that the shaft does not turn when attaching your nuts under your seat frames or you can attach seats and tighten before you plug the hole.

Of course this means that should you ever have to get the bolt out, it will be more work later.
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Dean in Eureka, CA
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Post by Dean in Eureka, CA »

Hi Jeff,
Check out how Martin Step goes about this to get a clean look.
http://www.greenval.com/FAQhidden.html
Everything will be OK[img::]http://www.mikenchell.com/forums/images ... uryi3b.gif[/img]

Dean in Eureka, CA
Vern, Spokane WA

Post by Vern, Spokane WA »

According to another boating site if stainless steel is covered with epoxy it will corrode. Needs to have contact with the air to prevent corrosion.
Vern
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Erik
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Post by Erik »

Dean in Eureka, CA wrote:Hi Jeff,
Check out how Martin Step goes about this to get a clean look.
http://www.greenval.com/FAQhidden.html
i LOVE the compass in the photo. anyone know what this is or where to get one? is this a bad idea? it may get in the way, but at the same time, its gotta be handydandy!!
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Bassbug
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Post by Bassbug »

Jeff,

I found brass countersunk washers at Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page. ... 16&p=47230 )in size #10. I used a 7/16" forstner bit and slid the washer into the hole. The hole on the #10 is 3/16" diameter. I used stainless steel hanger bolts, but would like to replace them with brass - just for looks. You can see how finished result at http://bluestempaddler.com/redbird/imag ... seat01.JPG.
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Its Me
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Post by Its Me »

Vern, Spokane WA wrote:According to another boating site if stainless steel is covered with epoxy it will corrode. Needs to have contact with the air to prevent corrosion.
Vern
I don't doubt this was mentioned on another site, but I would take issue with this. Its possible that they mistakenly installed steel bolts and not SS bolts. But a quality bolt properly alloyed with nickel and chrome should be unaffected by the epoxy coating.
Michael Freeman
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Post by Michael Freeman »

Its Me wrote:
Vern, Spokane WA wrote:According to another boating site if stainless steel is covered with epoxy it will corrode. Needs to have contact with the air to prevent corrosion.
Vern
I don't doubt this was mentioned on another site, but I would take issue with this. Its possible that they mistakenly installed steel bolts and not SS bolts. But a quality bolt properly alloyed with nickel and chrome should be unaffected by the epoxy coating.
On my Propector, the seats are hung from countersunk 3/16" stainless bolts (identical to those received by Jeff from Noah's). I had set the heads in epoxy to lock them in place, and the countersinks were plugged. This past summer I decided to lower the front edge of my rear seats, which meant removing and replacing the two front bolts with longer bolts. No easy task. The plugs came out easily enough, but I wound up having to partially drill the bolt heads off to free them from the surrounding epoxy so I could remove them. The bolts were as pristine as the day I had installed them. No corrosion. The canoe is about 6 years old.

To anwser the original question, the countersunk bolt head itself will be more than strong enough to support the seats.

Michael
AlanWS
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Post by AlanWS »

System 3 mentions the problem of bedding stainless steel in epoxy. But they are referring to saltwater use. They say that the problem is if the bolt is partly covered, corrosion can take place. There is no problem with the part that is encased in epoxy, or the part that is exposed to air, but there may be at the edge where the bolt emerges from the epoxy. And, I suspect, no real problem in freshwater, which is much easier on steel.
Alan
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Juneaudave
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Post by Juneaudave »

Just a question...I first used stainless bolts on my Bob's, but didn't like the shiny look of steel on the wood where they were exposed. I then bought some silicon bronze bolts from Jamestown Distributers and they really made an aesthetic difference in that they blended in with the wood and really complemented the installation. Should I be thinking of switching those silicon bronze bolts out and countersinking with a plug?
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

Why hide them if they look good?
Michael Freeman
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Post by Michael Freeman »

Juneaudave wrote:Just a question... Should I be thinking of switching those silicon bronze bolts out and countersinking with a plug?
Nope, that's how cedar/canvas canoe makers have hung seats (silicon bronze carriage bolts) for over a century. If you didn't do so when you installed the bolts, I would remove them and flush the holes with thinned varnish to seal the gunwale wood, then re-install.

Michael
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Erik, Belgium
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Post by Erik, Belgium »

personally I hate the look of metal hardware on a wooden canoe. Consider my approach of attaching the seats or thwaths without any hardware. Pics are on the bottom on this page http://users.pandora.be/kano-kayak/Winisk-1.htm


Erik, Belgium.
canoeblderinmt
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Sliding Dovetails?

Post by canoeblderinmt »

Erik,
did you use sliding dovetails (swallow tails) on the sliders and the seat supports? I am wondering how you keep them from falling out during portaging. It looks like a great technique, and I might use it on the 20 footer I'm starting on.

Greg
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