It has begun.

itfitz · Post by **itfitz** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:34 pm

Well, today I started to mill up the wood for my canoe. (Funny since I havent built the strongback or cut the molds yet) Looks like its going to be Mahogany, not cedar. The cabinet store down the street frequently throws out pieces of mahogany, so that is what I decided to use. They also frequently throw out sheets of plywood as well, or pieces big enough for a mold station. I am keeping track of the expenses on the canoe. My goal is to have her in the water for less than $100. I am off to a good start so far, just waiting on the plywood. I'll post some pics of the progess here soon.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:09 pm

Do you plan on using strips thinner than 1/4" to keep down the weight of the canoe? I often use 3/16" cedar strips on my boats. You want to keep the cost down to $100? Have you checked the cost of fiberglass cloth, epoxy and varnish. Lumber can be found for a decent price or even free but these essential materials are what make up the majority of the cost to build a boat.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:39 pm

I figure that I can build a canoe for 4-500 hundred dollars but I also have my strong back. I can also scrounge alot of wood. You still have gunnell material,deck material, seat material to scrounge or purchase not to mention the fiberglass,eopoxy and varnish. I just re-varnished one of my canoes yesterday. 1 quart of varnish=$16.00. I don't mean to come across as being negative but I think $100 is a little un-realistic. Anyhow-keep us posted and don't get discouraged. Building canoes can be fun and addictive.
Dave

itfitz · Post by **itfitz** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:22 pm

Speaking of varnish, why is it that you use varnish and not something like a poly urethane?

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:33 pm

Polyurethane is a great finish for canoes and kayaks, but it will increase the cost of building your boat.

I don't want to provoke you or poke fun at your target price but I sure would like to know where you will buy your materials in order to meet your objectives and I think many other builders would also like to know.

mtpocket · Post by **mtpocket** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:48 am

How long are the pieces of mahogany thrown out by the cabinet maker? Will you be thinking of scarf joints, many many scarf joints? If so, work on a good system to cut them because it will save you lots of time in the long run. Make a jig that can align them all the same, either to use cutting by hand or in a table saw. Use some of those scrap pieces to make it.

itfitz · Post by **itfitz** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:24 pm

Some of the scrap pieces are 8-10 feet long. A lot of it is trim that was unused and thrown out. I want to make the joints and put the board together before I start building the hull. I am going to try a couple of differernt joint types. Since the mahogany is all the same color and grain pattern, lap joints should work and not look bad because of the color, but we will see what happens in the test run.

As for the questions of my $100 canoe. I know lots of people in Key West that sell supplies such as glass cloth and resin, so thats who I am going to use as my suppliers. I also know a few boat builders that will probably let me use their shops to glass her. I'll keep ya'll posted on the $.

Tom in MN · Post by **Tom in MN** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:57 am

I teach a canoe building class for the local county parks outdoors program. Because they are government and on a tight budget, we usually use the cheapest lumber, cheapest resin, fiberglass, hardwood, etc. and lowest I have ever built a canoe for is just under $300. This was using all white pinefor strips that was left over from a custom moulding job that I did in my woodworking business (no cost), and all the hardwood I donated. Unless you get free epoxy and fiberglass, $100 is very unlikely. I wish you luck.

I wouldn't bother with joining strips, just use butt joints right on the canoe and it will not look any different, but will save you a ton of time.

itfitz · Post by **itfitz** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:56 pm

will it be as strong with the butt joints?

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:02 pm

As long as the butt joints do not all line up but are staggered there will be no problem. The strength comes from the glass/epoxy.

itfitz · Post by **itfitz** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:15 pm

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!

Tom in MN · Post by **Tom in MN** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:44 am

This has been an ongoing issue of good discussion on this board regarding scarfing, butt joints, etc. I think everyone would agree that it makes little difference from a hull integrity standpoint. The biggest issue is appearance and time. I have built a number of canoes (4 to be exact) and have never used full length strips. I have always used butt joints made right on the canoe. I try to place the joint right on the form, and usually try to keep them at least two forms away, and do not repeat a joint on a form for at least three strips. Occasionally one of the students in the class with forget and place them right on top of each other. No harm done, just a bit more visible.

I have not seen the benefit to pre scarfing strips, or cutting scarfs and joining them on the boat. I have read from a number of experienced builders that butt joints right on the canoe is the best way to go with short strips, and I have always done it this way.

mtpocket · Post by **mtpocket** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:08 pm

Hey itfitz,

I am not suggesting you make scarf joints. The only thing I am suggesting is that if you should choose to make them, start by setting up a good system of cutting them all the same. Personally, I think it will be strong no matter what joint you use. It will just look better if they are all the same. The reason for having a good system for cutting scarfs is that the adjoining ends need to have the exact same angle of cut. As is the case with any joint, if the angles differ, a gap will result. Sure, gaps can be filled with wood filler but I prefer to keep that to a minimum. Also, as mentioned above, staggering the joints will reduce the attention to that area. Multiple stacked joints won't look good regardless of joint type.
I never meant to open a new discussion or further an old one about whether or not scarf joints should be used. On that subject, I am not well enough informed to pass judgement. I did not have the need for joints on my boat because my strips were plenty long. Happy joining

fz7m0d · Post by **fz7m0d** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:14 pm

My strips varied from 10 to 14 ft on a 16 ft Prospector. I scarfed all my joints off the canoe. It was very time consuming........I know I wouldn't.........I mean won't.........do it again. But, I got lots of practice for the gunnels.

itfitz · Post by **itfitz** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:41 pm

my boards run anywhere from 4-10 feet. I figure I can use the shorter ones for cheater boards if need be. I assume that the bead and cove or tounge and groove will keep everything in line and contoured.

The Bear Mountain Boat Shop

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