spar varnish over untreated (un-epoxied) wood trim?

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Doug Carey
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spar varnish over untreated (un-epoxied) wood trim?

Post by Doug Carey »

I am coming down the home stretch with the gunwales, thwart and decks, and I am wondering about the merits of applying one coat of West epoxy to the raw wood (ash gunwales/thwart and mahogony decks).
I have developed a great deal of respect for just how much the West epoxy soaks into wood as a way of sealing, but don't know if using it on the hardwood trim before spar varnish is a good idea or not?
Its not the extra step that I am concerned about, but, rather the whole concept of realy sealing the wood properly to keep water/moisture out.
Any tips and suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks all!
d.c.
PADDLES AWAY!
Rick
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Post by Rick »

According to the info on the West page describing the how-tos, sealing the wood with three coats of epoxy before varnishing will reduce maintenance and the chance of mold and rot later on. I went with this on the gunnels on my Huron and after about a year of wear and tear, it seems to be more durable than varnish only. The real benefit may be over the long term where the epoxy maintains a waterproof seal more effectively and reduces blackening and rot, especially on ash gunnels... we'll just have to wait and see on that one.

Some prefer an oiled finish for a less glossy appearance, so it's your call.
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

If your intention is to completely seal the wood, you should use three coats of epoxy as recommended by West. I have tried it with two coats and I apparently missed some spots on one of the coats then sanded through to the wood because I ended up with black fungus in some particular spots. Not everyone likes the look of epoxied gunwales though. Storing the boat indoors will greatly reduce the risk of rot/fungus on the gunwales and varnish alone should be sufficient in this case.
Doug Carey
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Location: Port Robinson, Ontario, Canada

sealing trim with West before applying spar varnish

Post by Doug Carey »

I appreciate the suggestions, because I really want the work to stand the test of time.
The spar varnish is designed more to provide a U.V. protection is it not, rather than to actually seal the wood?
Is this more true because the trim is hardwood (ie. not as porous as the cedar and mahogony)?
I want to try to make the canoe as durable as possible, obviously!
thanks,
d.c.
PADDLES AWAY!
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Doug
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Post by Doug »

Varnish will seal the wood.
Epoxy will seal it and give you a very strong / durable seal.

3 coats of epoxy and then 3 (or more) coats of a spar marine varnish is and would be the the best protection.
(A belt and suspender protection)
A good quality (high UV protection) varish is worth the $45+.

Ash will show a spotty black mould within a few years, if not properly protected.

All the best,
Doug


.
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
Peter Kotowych
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sealing gunnels

Post by Peter Kotowych »

I am also getting ready to seal the gunnels.
If I use only varnish on the gunnels and put a coat on each year would
the ash be adequately protected in the long run?
Also, I have caned seats. I assume I should varnish the caning as well?

tks
Pete
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Doug
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Post by Doug »

More maintenance?
Getting rid of the "black spots" is no fun.

I was told not to varnish my cane seats.
It will dry out and become brittle.
I tung oiled mine.

All the best,
Doug


.
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

I varnished the cane on my seats and have no problems to report. However, I have read that it is preferable to NOT varnish the underside as the cane needs to breathe. I believe oiling the cane is a more common practice.
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Juneaudave
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Post by Juneaudave »

Black spots and oiled cane aside (and this was a good post)....listening to this dialog, I begin to wonder if we are so focused on building new boats that we miss the importance of proper storage? If you didn't triple seal your ash gunnels, didn't focus so much a gazzilion coats of UV protection...would you get more benefit by assuring your creation is stored properly out of direct sunlight and in a dry area? Granted, I don't have the long term experience with these boats, but continued exposure to sunlight and wet conditions seems to be the killer that eventually eats them up. I just fixed the scratches in the Bob's I built last year. I was disappointed that I didn't fix them in the fall, but was wondering if I had established a routine of maintenance, if the epoxy sealing and other armour coating techniques would be unnecessary. Thoughts?
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

I believe that proper indoor storage would be a great benefit to any wooden boat and would contribute to its longevity and diminish maintenance requirements. Unfortunately it is not always possible to give boats the care they deserve. That is why I prefer to coat, double coat or even triple coat all parts. If I had a proper storage shed, I would probably fill it up with boats until there was no room left anyway. :laughing
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fz7m0d
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Post by fz7m0d »

A couple of questions:

When sealing the trim with epoxy, do you wipe on thin coats with a rag, or brush it on?

For rawhide laced seats, should the rawhide be varnished or oiled?
Bob
(Confucius Say... Asking a stupid question is better than repairing a stupid mistake.)
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

I brush on the epoxy. For the rawhide, which I have never used myself, I have read about varnishing it.
Peter Kotowych
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unepoxied wood trim

Post by Peter Kotowych »

Getting back to Dave's posting, I plan to store my canoe in the garage at all times when not in use. This will obviously allow maximum protection from the elements (and canoe rustlers).
With this in mind I think that if I just varnish the gunnels and keep my eye on them, they should be fine. I might need to add another coat of varnish each spring. This, hopefully, will be adequate. I don't think I like the thought of 'shiney' gunnels anyway, so I guess I'll take my chances. I am new at this, and of couse, could be totally wrong.

Pete
AlanWS
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Post by AlanWS »

If you use a very thin epoxy like system three clear coat, it soaks in well enough that it doesn't look like a thick layer, but it adds extra protection under the varnish. Watch out for the space between the gunwales and the hull, and make sure you finish the backs before installing the gunwales (unless you are epoxying them in place). The water that gets in the crack has more time to work, and the gunwales I've seen that needed replacement started decaying there.
Alan
Doug Carey
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epoxy coating trim before spar varnish coat(s)

Post by Doug Carey »

I took some other builders suggestion and coated the "scuppers" with un-thickened epoxy before we installed the inwales (using thickened epoxy).
Based on what I have been reading from others in response to my original question, I am glad that I took that advise, and I have now decided that we will seal the inwales, outer wales, thwart and decks with West first, then apply spar varnish afterwards.
I was already planning on pre-coating the mahogony/ash decks with West prior to spar varnish coating (to add some strength as well)
d.c.
PADDLES AWAY!
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