keel time

Welcome to the new Bear Mountain Builders Forum - an interactive internet service we provide to encourage communication between canoe and kayak builders
Post Reply
fisherguytoo
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:25 pm
Location: Central Calif. foothills

keel time

Post by fisherguytoo »

:confused :rolling eyes
Well, the hull on my 15' ranger is done except for sanding and varnish.

The keel, that I decided to install half way thru the project is ready also.
Bare oak with no finish as yet.

I plan to install the keel prior to varnishing the hull and using thickened
epoxy.

Questions;
I feel that I should use at least several coats of epoxy over the keel, but
should I also use glass over the keel ???

The ends of the keel are reduced to approx 3 / 16' in height and I plan to
use one screw into the keel end going thru to the stems. The keel overlaps
the inner stem ends by about two inchs. I am assuming ( you know what that
means) that I cannot go without the screws and trim the ends of the keel
down to smoothly flow into the outer keel line, correct ????

Has this been tried by anyone out there ??? :thinking
fisherguytoo
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:25 pm
Location: Central Calif. foothills

OR ?????

Post by fisherguytoo »

OR,
Might the best way be to epoxy and varnish the keel prior to
installing on the hull ?????
Could be a lot less mess on the hull to deal with.
The hull is already epoxied and glassed. :thinking :big grin
User avatar
Glen Smith
Posts: 3719
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada

Post by Glen Smith »

I have never installed a keel but if I did, I would epoxy it in place then give it a few coats of epoxy before varnishing. I wouldn't bother with fiberglassing the keel because it will probably take a lot of hits and having it glassed will just add to the repair work later.

I would try to install some bracing from the shop ceiling down to the keel to hold it against the hull as the epoxy sets. If I had to use screws, I would probably remove them after the epoxy set and plug the holes.

This is all hypothetical though as I have never installed a keel as I said.
fisherguytoo
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:25 pm
Location: Central Calif. foothills

post reply

Post by fisherguytoo »

:shocked
Thanks for the info, glen.

Do you think that the epoy joining the keel to the hull will be strong
enough without using the screws ?????

If so I could shave the height of the keel down where it meets the
outer stem.

That would be great, as I do not want to drill into the hull if I can
avoid it. This canoe will be used only in lakes so I will not be hitting
rocks
:applause
User avatar
Glen Smith
Posts: 3719
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada

Post by Glen Smith »

Ted uses waxed temporary screws to hold the keel while the epoxy sets. He then removes them and plugs the holes. If it works for him it should work for anyone. You can also try to attach some temporary screws from the inside going through the hull inot the keel. Remove and plug after.
User avatar
Juneaudave
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 12:42 pm
Location: Juneau, Alaska
Contact:

Post by Juneaudave »

I used temporary screws through the keel into the keelson on the Rice Lake. Those holes were filled and eventually covered with a brass stem band.
JimND
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:50 pm

Post by JimND »

Glen's advice is very sound. If you hit something hard enough to knock the epoxy loose, a couple of screws at each end aren't going to hold the keel on either. The key is a good epoxy bond. I would scuff the hull epoxy with a coarse grit, like 80, to get a good grab. Then using unthickened epoxy, "paint" the contact surface of the keel with a couple coats until the wood no longer absorbs it and stays "wet". Before this epoxy sets up, use epoxy thickened with the additives made for adhesion, such as colloidial silica, to glue the keel to the hull. This is where it gets a little tricky but is workable. You need to get a firm contact to the hull, but you also don't want to squeeze out all the thickened epoxy. Epoxy is not like wood glue which works best when all but a very thin layer is squeezed out of the joint. Epoxy needs a thicker layer to adhere. You could use a number of screws to hold the keel temporarily, then remove and plug later. Or you could do as Glen suggested and use the ceiling to wedge some braces between it and the keel. I would test the brace idea to see if you can do it because that would result in no holes to plug. If you have sandbags you could weight it down but alignment would get tricky without at least some screws or other way to hold it true. When the epoxy is still green but not fully cured, you should be able to use a wood chisel or something similar to trim off the squeeze out so your cleanup will be minimal.

I agree with Glen about the fiberglass, it is a waste of time and work I think. It will wear through very fast on the keel if you beach a lot on sand and will make keel replacement a much tougher chore, not to mention fairing it in to begin with.
Post Reply