I am considering going with US Composites epoxy. I am looking for comments anyone has pertaining to this idea:
Using the 635 (thin) on the inside to seal coat and wet out.
Using 635 to seal coat and wet out on the outside and then 150 (thick with 1:1 hardener) to fill the weave of the cloth.
Should I just leave well enough alone and stick to the thin epoxy for all my epoxy needs? Does anyone on the board have expirience with the thick 150 epoxy from US?
US Composites epoxy question
It wasn't the US Composites, but I used very thin, slow epoxy (System 3 clear coat) to wet out the cloth, and thicker, faster epoxy (Sys 3 SB-112) to fill the weave. It worked beautifully, but the method of application needed to differ. The thin stuff went on well with a roller with 1/8" foam, while the thicker stuff needed a squeegee to spread it. Neither worked well with the other applicator.
From what it says on the US Composites website, I believe the thick 150 stuff to be thicker than what I used, and perhaps a problem to get smooth. If it is too thick, you could probably thin it by mixing with the thinner epoxy. Just make sure you have added resin and hardener in the correct proportions for each type of epoxy before mixing the epoxy types together, and the mixed resin will set up properly.
From what it says on the US Composites website, I believe the thick 150 stuff to be thicker than what I used, and perhaps a problem to get smooth. If it is too thick, you could probably thin it by mixing with the thinner epoxy. Just make sure you have added resin and hardener in the correct proportions for each type of epoxy before mixing the epoxy types together, and the mixed resin will set up properly.
Alan
Thanks for the input Alan. I must admit that I got the idea from the methods you used.
I'm just ripping strips right now and want to get the epoxy on the way so I could have it when I am ready. I'll check with US and see if they have anything to add.
I also want to thank you for taking the time to put up your site and document your work.
It has been an inspiration and a moitivation to me while it took me a rediculous amount of time to get my forms right. (didn't hlep that some of them warped over the winter and had to be cut again)
I'm just ripping strips right now and want to get the epoxy on the way so I could have it when I am ready. I'll check with US and see if they have anything to add.
I also want to thank you for taking the time to put up your site and document your work.
It has been an inspiration and a moitivation to me while it took me a rediculous amount of time to get my forms right. (didn't hlep that some of them warped over the winter and had to be cut again)
I am copying from a reply that I did under Tony Reinolds' "This Sucks!" post:
I have used the US Composites on my Endeavour. Since it is my first boat, I have nothing to compare it with, but I will give you my comments, nonetheless. Overall, I was very happy with the products. I used 6 oz e-glass and their medium hardener. The cloth came rolled on a bolt - in good condition. I got a good wet-out and nice transparency over most of the surface. I have two areas (approx 1.5' dia each) where if you look really close and in the right light, you can see the weave pattern, very lightly as a "white" weave. It is hardley noticeable. I glassed at 65-70 deg F and approx 70% humidity and was able to re-apply after approx 3.5-4 hours.
WRT your plan to seal coat - personnaly, from what I have read and my experience (1 boat - yeah!), I would not mess around with a seal coat. I can see some problems with doing it (which can be worked around, if you think it through first), and I have not yet seen any convincing reason to do it. Perhaps someone who has actually done it can provide their comment, but I took the path of least resistance (work), and it turned out fine.
As far as fiddling with the thin/thick options, I used the 635 and it worked fine for the initial wet-out and subsequent fill coats. Remember that you do not want too viscous for fill coats, or it will be tough to get it even. Another thing to consider is how many different products you want to "stock" (for both storage and wasteage issues).
BTW, be sure to use a foamie roller (4") for the fill coats (I used a "pour & roll method), squeegee where necessary and tip off with a brush. The foamie roller is recommended for two reasons. First you can control the amount applied much better than other methods, but even more important is that you can cover "huge tracks of land" in a short period of time (this is a great plus as when you are watching the clock during this operation, it gives a bit more breathing room - I was doing fil coats solo with no problems). Sorry to get off topic, and even more apoloogies if you have already been down these roads before.
For your original concern (635 vs 150 US Composites), I kept with the KIS approach and it turned out fine. If you decide to experiement with you proposed plan, do post your results. I would be curious to see how you make out! Best of luck.
I have used the US Composites on my Endeavour. Since it is my first boat, I have nothing to compare it with, but I will give you my comments, nonetheless. Overall, I was very happy with the products. I used 6 oz e-glass and their medium hardener. The cloth came rolled on a bolt - in good condition. I got a good wet-out and nice transparency over most of the surface. I have two areas (approx 1.5' dia each) where if you look really close and in the right light, you can see the weave pattern, very lightly as a "white" weave. It is hardley noticeable. I glassed at 65-70 deg F and approx 70% humidity and was able to re-apply after approx 3.5-4 hours.
WRT your plan to seal coat - personnaly, from what I have read and my experience (1 boat - yeah!), I would not mess around with a seal coat. I can see some problems with doing it (which can be worked around, if you think it through first), and I have not yet seen any convincing reason to do it. Perhaps someone who has actually done it can provide their comment, but I took the path of least resistance (work), and it turned out fine.
As far as fiddling with the thin/thick options, I used the 635 and it worked fine for the initial wet-out and subsequent fill coats. Remember that you do not want too viscous for fill coats, or it will be tough to get it even. Another thing to consider is how many different products you want to "stock" (for both storage and wasteage issues).
BTW, be sure to use a foamie roller (4") for the fill coats (I used a "pour & roll method), squeegee where necessary and tip off with a brush. The foamie roller is recommended for two reasons. First you can control the amount applied much better than other methods, but even more important is that you can cover "huge tracks of land" in a short period of time (this is a great plus as when you are watching the clock during this operation, it gives a bit more breathing room - I was doing fil coats solo with no problems). Sorry to get off topic, and even more apoloogies if you have already been down these roads before.
For your original concern (635 vs 150 US Composites), I kept with the KIS approach and it turned out fine. If you decide to experiement with you proposed plan, do post your results. I would be curious to see how you make out! Best of luck.
Snowman back East
I appreaciate the reply, Monte Python reference included! :big grin
Since the epoxy is pretty low cost I'll may buy enough to do the job with the thinner stuff and play around with the thicker stuff and see what happens on some test material. I'd hate to mess up my work because of my curiosity to tinker around....
I'll order up a few rollers with my epoxy, seems to be the way to go.
As far as the seal coat goes, I know it's an issue of great debate. I'd rather not go down that road because of lack of expirience I cannot enter into any sort of proper debate on that subject. The designer of the boat I'm making (Northwest Cruiser) advocates it, so I'm going for it. Pretty much that simple.
Since the epoxy is pretty low cost I'll may buy enough to do the job with the thinner stuff and play around with the thicker stuff and see what happens on some test material. I'd hate to mess up my work because of my curiosity to tinker around....
I'll order up a few rollers with my epoxy, seems to be the way to go.
As far as the seal coat goes, I know it's an issue of great debate. I'd rather not go down that road because of lack of expirience I cannot enter into any sort of proper debate on that subject. The designer of the boat I'm making (Northwest Cruiser) advocates it, so I'm going for it. Pretty much that simple.
Use thin
I bought a gallon of the 1:1 thick for filets on my S&G decked sailing canoe. It is VERY thick and also faster setting than the thins. I would not go to the trouble of using it for filling the weave.
My recommendation is to use the US Composites medium cure epoxy for all operations. Keep it simple.
My recommendation is to use the US Composites medium cure epoxy for all operations. Keep it simple.
someday I'll fly, someday I'll soar