Looking for Opinions! Glassin' the Outside.

Welcome to the new Bear Mountain Builders Forum - an interactive internet service we provide to encourage communication between canoe and kayak builders
Post Reply
pwstndrf
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Saginaw, Michigan

Looking for Opinions! Glassin' the Outside.

Post by pwstndrf »

I had planned on adding a second layer (football shaped) to the bottom of my 16 Peterborough, had it cut and in-place (under the main sheet) and the morning of applying the epoxy to it I talked myself out of adding it and removed it. :confused

Being a first timer I got cold feet about the two layers of 6 Oz. cloth and getting a good bond (wetout) with the wood.

I just finished sanding it (the whole thing) this past Weekend (w/100 grit) and am planning to add a final coat of epoxy (West Sys. 105/207). I discovered a couple of spots where I sanded too long in the same place and the weave is showing (no wood yet).

My question is:
A. Do I just add the final coat and keep going.
B. Do I add the second layer of cloth, fill it and fair it into the first coat.

I'd kinda like the idea of the added protection with the second layer. But am still leery about the process of adding the second laver with the possibiility of frayed edges making a mess of the whole thing. I experienced some of this when I did a sample piece.

If I choose Option B, do any of you experienced people have any ideas to make this less painful or risky? Maybe I just need some convincing "this ain't so tough" or am I dreaming?

Lookin' for help!

Regards,

phil w.
Rob from Hamilton
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 9:09 pm

Second layer on football

Post by Rob from Hamilton »

I have alot of scratches on my 17'6" Rebdird, but hardly any on the football area. ( Any scratches in that area have come from the canoe being in my garage, not in the water! ) Most are near the ends from beaching, or hitting rocks etc. Even when I push off from a sandy beach it seems most of the wear area is about three feet from the ends. Personally, I don't do much shallow water canoeing, so I didn't bother with a double layer of glass. I did add brass stem bands, though. I think they look good, and help prevent damage on the ends.
Rick
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 9:23 am
Location: Bancroft, Ontario

Post by Rick »

Phil, it ain't so tough.

I added on another layer of 6 oz glass to the football in my Huron - with the rocks and gravel that part of the hull came into contact with, probably good insurance.

Sanding off the edge of the second layer so that it's flush and fair with the lines of the hull is straightforward if the edge is on the strongly curved part of the hull's cross-section - just use the sanding block to carefully smooth the edge off and eliminate any shiny spots, without going into the glass underneath. The overcoat of epoxy or varnish will make the line between the layers difficult to see, in fact it's invisible unless you search for it.

The second layer of glass worked out so well that I'm going to include it in all the boats I'll be building, including the inside, to balance out the forces when hitting a rock. Give it a try, you'll probably find it fairly easy compared to the rest.
reinbilt
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:35 am
Location: northern michigan

Post by reinbilt »

Phil,
I needed to overlap several sections of cloth both inside and outside when I built my Cosine Wherry. Each coat needed to cure and then be sanded back before the next section. I also thought those overlaps would be a real mess but after all the coats of epoxy were on, sanded, and varnished you don't see any overlap marks. Just be careful not to work the edges too long to avoid excesssive fraying.
User avatar
Patricks Dad
Posts: 1476
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Warrenville, Illinois

Post by Patricks Dad »

Here's a trick that might be helpful to avoid frayed edges on your extra layer of glass and make it easy for you to control exactly where the edge of your 2nd layer of glass ends (e.g., to follow a specific joint in the hull's stripping).


http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Wshophtm/Shop23a.htm

I couldn't find this last night and it was bugging me all night and this AM until I hunted it down.

Good luck
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com
AlanWS
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:30 pm
Location: Shorewood, WI

Post by AlanWS »

If you are putting on a second layer reinforcement or patch, I prefer to have the smaller piece on the outside, despite the need to do something to the edge. The reason for this is that you can smooth the edge and still have a strong continuous layer underneath. If you sand a ridge smooth that results from a second layer underneath, you risk cutting through the top layer and having no continuous glass.

After the epoxy sets, but within a day or so while it has not reached its maximum hardness, you can smooth off the edge rapidly with a surform plane. Just make sure then to cover the surface of the cut glass edges with epoxy, or you will be able to see the ends of the fibers when you varnish. Another method that I've only used once is to put a sheet of heavy polyethylene over the edge of the patch, and go over it with a smooth roller (brayer). You can squish the glass down to almost nothing at the edges, so there is very little sanding to make it blend in, and it seems to me that this is the strongest way to do it, as the glass fibers remain intact. After the epoxy sets, the poly peels right off. Test your plastic film first. Food wrap like Saran is too thin, and some have said waxed paper leaves wax that prevents sticking of other finish.
Alan
User avatar
Bud
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:20 pm
Location: Clayton, Georgia
Contact:

Post by Bud »

An alternative to more fiberglass would be a graphite/silica/epoxy coat on the bottom. It would be less work and much lighter, but not as pretty.
My 2 cents,
Bud
"Canoes don't tip. People just fall out of them!" Omer Stringer
pwstndrf
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Saginaw, Michigan

Post by pwstndrf »

This is what is GREAT about this Forum!!! Lot's of help!

I think I have the answer I was looking for, I wanted to add the second layer of cloth but wasn't too sure how to go about it without making a big mess of it.

:smile

Well I am going to do it!

I appreciate everyone's opinions and experiences, Thanks to all. Randy's reference to the fiberglass tape trick (One Ocean-Kayaks) looks like a safe way to go

Thanks guys for the help. We'll keep you informed.

Regards,

phil w.
Post Reply