Fastest Bear Mountain Boats?

[Moonman]

Hello Everyone,

I'm killing time here a bit and was thinking about hull speed a little. Does anyone have any idea of the hull speeds, in order, say from slowest to fastest, of the Bear Mountain designs? Obviously the Freedom 17', 9" is faster than the Prospector but I thought it could provoke an interesting discussion. Also, maybe someone could chime in on other designs, like the Swift boats from Green Valley etc.

Thanks,

Moonman.

[Erik, Belgium]

I can only guess 'cause we don't have any of those hull types around here in Europe.
- My guess is the Freedom 17 (Bearmountain) and Winisk (Green Vallye) are about the fastest duo tripping canoes.
- A special design, a little long maybe for normal use but surely incredible fast: Chaa Creek Expedition 19/9
- As far as solos: Apart from the 18,6" C1 Marathon, I bet the 17" solo tripper from Bearmountain is fastest.
End speed depends on the load and wheather conditions of course.

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

I'm going to guess too.
It starts with "R" and ends with "EDBIRD"

[KARKAUAI]

Not having been in the water yet, I'll still bet a paycheck that my 18' Ulua with 100sq ft of sail will kick some butt in head to head with any old bird. Kent

[Glen Smith]

C'mon Dean, you ain't goin to let Kent get away with that are you? You guys could race to Hawaii so Kent can get his boat home!

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

A drag race huh? Well let's see, Kent's got a 100 sq. ft. sail and an outrigger. I'll have a 46 sq. ft. sail and lee boards. That's like a top fueler going up against a pro stocker. They do race cars of unequal perfomance ratios, giving the car with less power a handicap start. With the different ratios in sails and rigging what would my handicap be? I know Kent isn't into car racing, at least circle track racing, but maybe someone could come up with a good handicap start. How about you Glen? Hey if this get's interesting, I'll have to consult Mr. Bradshaw, maybe he could "bore my stroke" a bit and come up with a better sail, like a leg-o muntin or something. 8)

[Glen Smith]

Hey Dean, maybe we can fool Kent into heading in the wrong direction so that he has to circumnavigate the Big Blue Planet while you sail straight over to the finish line :lol: .

PS: Don't let Kent read this, OK? :

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Pssst, Uh Glen,
(You could have used that private messaging thing that we've been sending messages back and forth on all evening, instead of putting it here)

Well, now that our plan is out of the bag, I hereby concede! :( Kent is correct, his rig would fly by me like I was standing still. :shock: Wait-a-Minute, wasn't this thread about Bear Mountain designs :?:

Kent,
I'll put my accent stipe up against your inlay work.
We'll post finished pictures and have a pole posting and let everyone vote on it. :idea:
Whatcha Say?
Speaking of pictures, when are we going to get to see a shot of that North Carolina Hawaii Whatchamacallit? :lol:

BTW isn't that "hang loose" thing all about looking cool, instead of being fast? 8)
Oh, sorry Kent, I forgot to say hello: Aloha!
Well, I guess I'll say good-bye now: Aloha!

[KARKAUAI]

Aloha, Dean, et al,
Wow, you guys sure bit on that one. You've been having quite a time while I was out.

I propose we use only star navigation for this race and see if anybody makes it to the Sandwich Isles. I'll buy the sandwiches if anybody gets there.

If my inlay takes as long as I think it's going to, everybody will be dead by the time they have a chance to vote. I think I'm going to have to use the method in the link that Glenn sent me. If it ends up looking ANYTHING like the "paddle man" I envision, I'll be amazed.

As for pics, I'm taking a few as I go along, but haven't wanted to take the time to set up a website. I PROMISE I'll do it when I'm done building.

A hui ho (Till we meet again),
Kent

[Jeff in Pembroke]

I'm entering this fray with a bit of trepidation, but I thought I'd pass on the experience of a friend of mine. He is one of the Burnstown group featured in the News Updates section of the website.
He was interested in a tandem tripper and he test paddled several Bear Mountain designs before building. Notable, he test paddled both the Freedom 17'9" and the Redbird. He decided to build the Redbird (yay, Dean) because he found it significantly faster than the Freedom :!: . Now that I've said that, I am going to run for cover!

[Todd Bradshaw]

Tell me you're not serious about sticking 100 sq. ft. of sail on an Ulua.....If so, all Dean needs to do to win is pick a reasonably windy day. That's around twice the designer's suggested sailplan and about 20% more than a Hobie 14 has. It's enough to easily bury the ama on one tack and require a trapeze on the other tack. You may be faster for a few seconds, but not for long..... Drastically overpowering a canoe hull with sail area is quite often not the formula for going fast in most conditions. If the hull is so overpowered that you can't properly trim and use the sails, it has quite the opposite effect on speed.

[KARKAUAI]

Aloha, Todd,
I wondered how long it'd take you to jump in there. I was jerking Dean's chain a bit. I'll have two rigs, one for light air with around 70 sq. ft, and one for typical trades of 10 to 20 kts with Gary's recommended sailplan. I'd thought about making a reefable rig, but Nick Beck said it's just too hard to reef under sail in HI's big waters. He recommended the two sail inventory. I'll have to add, though, that Sharkey Agulera, who races 6man canoes in interisland races, encouraged me to put up at least 80 sq ft. He says that it's easy to spill air when you get overpowered. After sailing with Nick last Winter in 25kt winds with 80 sq ft up on a 30 foot 3 man canoe, I decided that I'd rather go smaller and not have to work so much. Guess I could always go bigger if I got serious about coastal racing, but my canoe won't meet specs for any of the sanctioned races, anyway...too light. I'm building mine for fishing and costal cruising/camping, but FLYING in Nick's Holopuni was probably one of the most exciting things I've ever done. I'm sure I'll want that feeling again.

Guess we've beat this thread about to death, huh? Maybe it's time we got back to building canoes.

A hui ho,
Kent

[Chris Ostlind]

I'm finding that the Hobie 14 runs a standard main at 118 sq ft. with the Turbo version clocking in at another 30 ft. of jib.

http://www.nahca.org/hobies/hobie14_specifications.htm

CO

[Todd Bradshaw]

Traditionally, sailmakers (and many class rules) don't generally measure the area of sail roach as part of the square footage. Roach size is usually handled by different means since it doesn't contribute to lift-producing luff length or speed on certain points of sail. Thus the figures in the sailmaking data bases will list the H14 like this:
Luff 20.33, Foot 8.17, Leech-AftHdBd 21.53 Tack Ang 87.97 Diag (clew/head) 21.64, Head (inches) 3.50, Area (no Roach) 82.95 sqft
Some rating systems do measure actual roach and will show different figures for the same sail, though it can be a bit misleading if you're comparing it to other Marconi mains of more traditional shape and having smaller roaches.

[Guest]

Darn! I missed all the fun today. Had a very long workday and worknight.

Todd,
What you said about sail sizes, confirmed to me that I made the right choice by going with the standing lu sail. (user friendly) Originally, I was drawn to the leg-o-muntin, but thought that it would be just too much sail for me to handle.

Jeff,
That was a good piece of information to read.

Kent,
Don't worry about how long that inlay work is going to take you. It took me a month just to build the blank for my accent strips. I've only stripped up just past the waterline, I think I've got about 4 or 5 more strips to completey cover the keel area of the stems, so you've got plenty of time. My summer work blitz is going to make it tough to get free time to work on the canoe. "Paddle Man" sounds pretty cool, does he wear a mask and a cape? :