Random Orbital Sander Selection

BRBob · Post by **BRBob** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:49 am

My son and I will build our first boat (a kayak) this winter. I am working on assembling the tools and, with Christmas coming up, it is an opportune time. We will build a stitch and glue kayak for my son and then I want to build a strip kayak for myself.

Anyway, I am trying to determine which type of random orbital sander is best. This forum had a similar question in August but the responses tended to just suggest manufacturers. But, each manufacturer has different models. The August/September issue of Fine Homebuilding magazine has a pretty good review of ROS's and classifies them as palm types (for light duty finish work), pistol grip types (for finish carpentry and woodworking), and right-angle types (for rough applications and smoothing large surfaces). Each suceeding group tends to step up in amps (power)and weight. There are also 5" and 6" sanders.

Since I haven't built with fiberglass or wood strip construction before, and I haven't used a random orbital sander, I don't know, for instance, if a palm type is too much of a finish sander to work efficiently or if a right-angle type is too aggressive and hard to control. Or maybe a palm type is just the ticket because it's the lightest and smallest and will fit into tighter spaces.

I'm hoping that some of the experinced builders out there can shed some light on this.

Thank you.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:19 am

I built a few boats using a 5" palm sander from Black & Decker but it soon died out. I replaced it with a Bosch 3107DVS which has variable speed so you can obtain a fine finish using different paper grits. I also purchased a vaccum hose hook-up adaptor so now my sanding is dustless and I bought a soft interface pad which improves the sanding on rounded surfaces. This sander is a bit larger and heavier than a palm sander and I must hold it with both hands. Overall, it does a very good job and I wouldn't trade it for any other sander.
http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tools-d ... 25&I=55101

KARKAUAI · Post by **KARKAUAI** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:30 am

I have the same Bosch as Glen, and it's great for most things. I, too, use the soft pad for most things, and highly recommend getting the vacuum dust-collection hose. I've had one go bad after sanding epoxy without vacuum collection. It gums everything up pretty bad. Much safer using the vacuum, too, but you still need to use a good dust filter mask when sanding, especially epoxy. I also have a 5" PorterCable ROS that is much lighter in weight and has a less aggressive action that I use inside the hull at the turn of the bilge and toward the stems. I like them both and recommend either or both.

Ed Houston · Post by **Ed Houston** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:18 pm

I have a Riobi and a B & D Mouse, the Mouse is my tool of choice.
I am also looking at going pneumatic with future purchases sanders grinders etc.

Ed

shontsea · Post by **shontsea** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:13 pm

I use a 5" Porter Cable variable speed for most things, but I also have a Ridgid 6", which is actually made by Metabo in Germany, and it has variable orbit (finish or aggressive) and variable speed. Metabo easily matches Bosch for quality, but the Ridgid is less money. It is also gauranteed for life for parts and labor as long as Home Depot stays in business (pretty long I'll assume). Some Bosch 6" models also have variable orbit.

The Ridgid sander is a very versatile tool, and can be had for less money than I've ever seen for the Metabo. Look for it to be on sale during the holiday season. All sanders can be attached to a vacuum, some easier than others but it's not rocket science. Once you hook one up, you'll never want to sand without it. Make sure you get at least a 10' small diameter hose so you're not dragging the shop vac hose all over your work.

Bryan Hansel · Post by **Bryan Hansel** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:58 pm

I have the same Bosch as Glen, except mine must be an old version because my dust collector is nowhere near as nice. It's been a champ.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:15 pm

Bryan, my dust collector isn't like that one either, it is a cloth bag on a plastic frame. I only use it if I want to gather some sanding dust or if the vacuum hose won't fit into the area I am sanding.

Shontsea, I use a small diameter hose hooked up to the sander and to a standard Shop-Vac hose for extra length. However, the sander creates too much of a load on my Shop-Vac and the motor brushes wore out very quickly. To avoid this problem in the future I drilled a few holes through my vacuum connection where it hooks up to the sander. This relieves some of the pressure created on the Shop-Vac which will prolong the motor life and it still collects the dust extrememly well.

BRBob · Post by **BRBob** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:34 pm

Thank you very much to all who replied to my request for more information on randon orbital sanders. I was tending toward the "pistol grip" type sander such as the Bosch 3107DVS because the Fine Homebuilding article indicated that type was a good all around sander. Many of your comments seem to confirm that.

I found an interesting dissertation on the subject of using random orbital sanders on kayak hulls on the "Shop Tips" page of the Laughing Loon website. http://www.laughingloon.com/shop.tips.html In the photos it appears Rob Macks also uses the Bosch 3107DVS but he lists three sanders he would choose from if he had to purchase a new one. All three are lighter weight, less amps and two are of the "palm" type. One is the Porter Cable 333VS which I think may be the model that Shontsea and Karkauai mentioned.

My current inclination is to go for the Porter Cable 333VS based on my understanding of the sanding principles from that web page. It's also the least expensive sander. If it doesn't do all I need it to, I can then go ahead and get the Bosch or Rigid. I'm sure the smaller Porter Cable will still come in handy.

Thanks to Shonsea and Glen also for the tips on using a smaller diameter hose for the connection to the vacuum. I hadn't heard about doing that before.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:56 pm

If I could afford the luxury of having two sanders my second one would be the Porter Cable 333VS. Let me explain my reasoning: My Bosch sander is an excellent tool BUT when I have to sand the interior of the hull and it is sitting in carpeted slings, it would be much easier to do if I could hold my sander with one hand and the hull with the other hand. The Bosch is quite large and my hands are quite small so I have to hold it with both hands and the hull moves all over the place in the slings.

So Santa, if you read this, you know what I need for Christmas.

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:22 am

I bought a Bosch ROS ( http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tools-d ... 25&I=55099 ) to replace my 20 year old B&D 1/4 sheet sander.
Dust collection was the primary reason.
For the most part all good quality ROS will meet that qualification.
It probably depends on want is available and what is in the budget and they are not always the same.

p.s. there is a good article on ROS in the current (#161) "Woodsmith" magazine.
http://woodsmith.com/

All the best,
Doug

.

Chris Ostlind · Post by **Chris Ostlind** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:15 pm

Here's a posting from late August of this year in which I gave a brief review of the various tools I have:

I posted this about three weeks ago on the Duckworks Forum at Yahoo Groups. There was a short discussion about RO sanders at the time and I had indicated that I had now accumulated several of them. Whoa! Some of the regulars gave me tool grief and I had to explain the situation.

For the record, I have an older (15 yrs.) Porter Cable RO machine, a couple of Festools and a couple of Ridgid units in two sizes.

So, here it is:

This thing about having more than one sander, developed over time, actually.
I've had the Porter Cable for about 15 years now (they were well made then) and it worked very well for anything I threw its way. Some exceptions; It
doesn't get into tight areas well because of the barrel grip and a wide dust
collection skirt. It has a really strange orbit pattern that shows-up in truly
fine work no matter the paper used.

The Festool machines were offered to me as a part of an incredible promotional
offer extended to woodworking folks in which I got both tools for about $150. I
got the ETS 150/3 $250MSRP for finish work and the RO 150 $420MSRP for its dual
action capacity. I mostly use the RO in the aggressive mode as the other mode
replicates that of the 150/3. I can't say enough about the Festool line. The
machines are over-the-top as to well built components, terrific design, powerful
motors and the absolute best dust management system I have ever seen.

As a result of the promo offer and my subsequent exposure to the product line, I
will likely be picking up their tool triggered vacuum system as well. That one
floats around the shop on a cushion of air and it plays tunes from a nesting
slot for the iPod.

OK, just kidding. It sits on wheels and is a pain in the butt like all other
vacuums. It does have micron HEPA filtration capacity though, so the air coming
out is probably cleaner than the prevailing shop air before the sanding started.

Another high end Euro sander that is also really great is Fein. I've used their
6" RO machine on a job after a friend lent it to me and I was just about to buy
one when the Festool offer popped-up on the screen.

As for value, the Ridgid 6" unit is the best of the bunch. Its virtually the
same sander as the Metabo 6" with minor cosmetic changes. The Metabo at $199 at
Amazon is highly regarded for its aggressive stroke and excellent dust
collection. The Ridgid does the same stuff for many dollars less at $139. That's
value.

I picked up the two Ridgid tools because my PC was ancient and I didn't want to
be trying to finish a boat job and have the darn thing crap out when I needed it
most. The lifetime warranties put the whole deal over the top for me. So all
these sanders just came my way through very lucky timing and very few dollars.

Anyway, don't despair with a single machine. For years, I only had one and it
was more than enough.

Chris Ostlind

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:45 pm

There really is a Santa Claus!

On November 28th I made this statement concerning the Porter Cable 333VS sander:

So Santa, if you read this, you know what I need for Christmas.

Today a UPS driver delivered me a box containing a brand new Porter Cable 333VS sander. Thank you very much Santa.

Dean in Eureka, CA · Post by **Dean in Eureka, CA** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:08 pm

Looks like you've been a good boy Glen!

jfranck · Post by **jfranck** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:18 pm

I bought a Ridgid to sand my canoe with and it seems to work fine. It is variable speed and you can connect either a small (1 1/4) or large (2 1/4) shop vac tube. My only problem is that I am left handed and I keep accidentally turning it off due to the location of the on/off switch.

The Bear Mountain Boat Shop