Nails

[Danny Turner]

Hi all.
This is my first boat build and I want ti to look as good as possible when completed. Now the thing is that as I turn the bilge area the strips are getting more difficult to lay flat against the forms especially in those areas where the hull takes on a "cheeked" appearance.

What I`ve been doing is to use thin panel pins, about 1.5" long, through a waste piece of strip
and into the srtip and form beneath. Just this arternoon however I made a few wooden jigs which I clamp to the form and they work well in those places where the resistance is`nt too great.However in the "cheeked " areas the result is somewhat disapointing. Then again I may not have made the jigs properly. I have`nt seen any closeup pics of any so I was working blind.I do have an idea to modify them which I will try tomorrow.
But what to do with the holes of the nails I`ve already used ?
I took a couple out, one from the accent strip which is maple, one from the WRC.
In both cases I plugged the holes with the same wood, sawed it neat with the pull saw and sanded down.

It looks fine yet I believe I recall somewhere that this is a bad practice. Is this correct, is it ill advised. Are there any "easy" ways of hiding these holes( as much as possible)
or should I look to something else?

All replys received with gratitude ( believe me)

Danny

[davidb54321]

Danny,

Time to get creative with tape, bungie cords, braces from the ceiling, etc! Sit back in your moaning chair and visualize the problem area. Chances are you will come up with a solution. Do what you can to keep those strips against the form.

[Glen Smith]

Have you tried using a hot air gun to "preform" the strips in the tough areas?

The only way to eliminate nail or staple holes is to not use them at all. The holes are too small for using wood putty because it won't penetrate deep enough and most of it will come out during the sanding. Plugging the holes with toothpicks or slivers of wood means you will have end grain on the surface and that will absorb more epoxy and appear darker. Apparently some people have minimized the visual impact of the holes by applying a hot, damp cloth to swell the wood. Some have even used a steam iron. These methods can present a risk of staining the wood or dissolving the glue between strips, so be careful.

[Danny Turner]

Thank guys.

Ok, so its think time for me. The bungie cord idea sounds fine.I was actually going to experiment with ratchet cables, the type used to hold down small loads on trucks.

Whatever, something will work. This is a good learning curve to take to my next boat.
But it`s a very steep one.

Danny

[mtpocket]

This is a good learning curve to take to my next boat.

That's the spirit

Just like the rest of us, thinking of the next boat before the first one is done.

[Danny Turner]

Thanks for the encouregement .
And David, I had a look at the photobucket and the jigs you employ. This has opened my eyes. Mine are similar but only. But happy days, I`m on my way again. Roll on tomorrow.
( It`s 01.10 Wed morn now)
Thank you all

Danny zzzzzzzz

[ealger]

Danny, in the past I've had to revert to a few nails myself. I plugged the holes with toothpicks spun with a small cordless drill motor. The problem, as mentioned, is that the end grain does show.

Here's a few pictures of my current project showing some stapleless/nailless clamping.
Ed...

http://photobucket.com/albums/a237/ealger/

[canoeblderinmt]

Danny,
If you are willing to invest a little time, you can make plugs for your nail holes that will not be end grain. Cross-cut a piece of the appropriate wood (you mentioned maple), and using a chisel and/or a fine saw (like a japanese pull saw or a Zona saw from the hobbyshop), cut yourself some little "spikes" to drive into the hole. Apply some thin cyanolite glue (crazy glue) and drive the spike in with a hammer carefully but quickly. chisel flush and sand, your hole should pretty much disappear. See if this helps:


Keep plugging!

Greg

[Tom in MN]

The most important thing is to get the strip to go where it needs to go. It will cause more of a problem and be more visually noticeable if the strip is out of place. When in doubt, use the nail the way you are doing it.

I too have resorted to nails on a few occasions (anyone who has built Mac McCarthy's wee lassie has likely done the same). Just take a damp cloth and wet the hole a little and the wood will swell back up and close the hole somewhat. I then just use thickened (colloidal silica from West) epoxy and fill the hole and scrape it smooth to minimize sanding. When you are finished with the boat, you will be the only one who notices the hole.

[mtpocket]

A way to avoid the use of staples and nails in the tough areas, such as the bilge area, is to employ the use of clamps. If you have a strip that won't lay down or pull tight the way you want it, attach a clamp to the end of the strip and weight it down or tie it off in such a manner as to hold the strip in the desired position. I found this photo that shows how this is done.

[Dan.]

Danny,
If you are willing to invest a little time, you can make plugs for your nail holes that will not be end grain. Cross-cut a piece of the appropriate wood (you mentioned maple), and using a chisel and/or a fine saw (like a japanese pull saw or a Zona saw from the hobbyshop), cut yourself some little "spikes" to drive into the hole. Apply some thin cyanolite glue (crazy glue) and drive the spike in with a hammer carefully but quickly. chisel flush and sand, your hole should pretty much disappear. See if this helps:


Keep plugging!

Greg

Doesnt this leave the hole on the inside only partially filled?

[Danny Turner]

Hey,
Thank you all for your help and replys.They "all" help so much so please never stop offereing your advice.
If it wasn`t for this forum I don`t think I would be anywhere near where I am just now. I`m so glad I found this place. I`m so sad though that when I was in Peterborough ( ?) I did`nt get to visit the Bear Mountain Shop. I got to the canoe museum though. Thats another reason why I`m buiding this canoe.
It`s not so much the want to build something that floats on water ; for me I want to recreate as closely as possibly and within my limited abillities, something that the the First Nation people would have used.

I`m having to plug,as best as possible the holes I`ve already made but I`ve devised a jig similar to that of Davids ( above) which allows me to apply pressure to the strip, downwards and directly against the form without the use of nails or staples.

I will try the " wet " system to partaly close the holes left by the nails, plus using a hot gun CAREFULLY.

I`ll post my results
Thanks again .

Danny

[davidb54321]

Danny,

Glad you are making progress. I cannot however take credit for any jigs you see in my photo's. Everything you see, I "stole" from somewhere, likely another forum member, or from "Canoecraft". I may have adapted them for my own use, as we all have done. Please help yourself to anything you can use, but the ideas come from all of us.

Thanks

[canoeblderinmt]

Dan. ,
This technique can leave the inside partly unfilled if the spike is tapered too sharply. I should have noted that the angle was exaggerated iin the drawing. Cedar is pretty soft and you can pound a spike in to fill the hole pretty well. If you do end up with a little "ring" on the inside, it is easily filled. Good question, though.

Greg

[patrick]

You may need to get a little creative in some places. On our redbird, we found that in a few places we needed to do some very crazy clamping setups involving long pieces of tape, clamps, wedges, bungie cords, pieces of rope, winches, egg plants, dachsunds, etc. I think its kinda fun finding new and creative solutions.