It was hard to sit and wait while the varnish cured...
The first launch of my Endeavour was on 29 Apr 06. I have shared the launch day pictures at the following address:
Snowman's Launch Pics
I still have yet to do the final seat placement, as I wanted to paddle it first to verify the bouancy/balance.
Thanks to all those who helped on this site - both directly and indirectly. This site is super, because of all of you who participate! :smile
Snowman
Launch Day!!!
Launch Day!!!
Snowman back East
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Glen Smith
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Cyril Gosse
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Patricks Dad
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canoeblderinmt
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Paddling Impressions & Construction Comments
Well, I have had some time to wet the hull (and deck…) and I can offer a few comments. For paddling impressions, keep in mind that I am 6’ 0” and 179 lbs (183 cm, 81 kg).
Stability
Initial stability - I found that the initial stability feels a bit unstable – until you get used to it. I don’t have cheek plates in yet, and my seat does not offer a great deal of lateral support. I think anchoring my but a little better will help transfer body control to the hull.
Secondary stability - is marvelous. Once you obtain a partial roll/lean, she feels very nice. This is very nice for executing turns and directional control. Read on..
Directional stability – tracking vs turning. Well, this design paradox often divides boats and boat seekers. I found my Endeavour really was a fence sitter. I did not incorporate a rudder or skeg. She tracks reasonably well on calm waters, but with my trim set-up requires constant attention with correction strokes and/or opposite roll to keep it tracking straight in rough water. The secondary stability really allows one to use a “roll correction” comfortably. She turns beautifully, especially for a 17’. Once a rotational velocity is imparted, the boat will continue to rotate/yaw at approx the same or slightly dampened rate. This rotation/yaw generally requires a corrective action to terminate. Overall, I found that even with a full aft seat position, I could still benefit from a further aft CG or alternately a little more aft lateral (submerged) area to assist with the tracking. I don’t yet have hatches installed, but before I consider any alterations (rudder, skeg, or build up my external stem), I would likely wait until I have an aft hatch so that I could experiment with small changes in gear/ballast placements. At this point I am reasonably satisfied with the paddling characteristics, after having the opportunity to develop a paddling “style” to exploit the characteristics of my Endeavour. Maybe future tripping with gear will reveal other characteristics as well…
Construction
As this is my first project, I have little to benchmark it against… I found that each step of the construction went very well, I just wish I had a time generating machine – I had trouble dedicating the time and dedicated workspace. I basically followed the steps in Kayakcraft (except perhaps the cockpit) and religiously followed the postings on BMB forum site. I found that Kayakcraft gave me approx 75% of what I needed. Other resources were Canoecraft, Nick Schade’s book The Strip-Built Seak Kayak, and the Guillemot. Thanks to al of those out there who have contributed to all of these great resources!
If I were to do this model again, I would likely consider doing the following different:
a. modify the aft deck to lower the profile. I know a few others out there have done so already.
b. Move the aft edge of the cockpit rearward slightly to offer more flexibility
c. Fwd bulkhead – in retrospect, I could have moved it further aft than I calculated. I guess it is still good for any super long legged folks that paddle mine
d. Strip orientation – I built cove up (during the inverted hull build). I might try a cove down next time
e. Artistic touch – I will not spend as much time of the hull sides making a pretty design. If I were to spend time making a design, it will be on the deck. I went for an uncomplicated deck design, which still looks alright, but I don’t think the fiddle time I spent on the hull was warranted…
f. Staples – I started out going down the staple road. I soon discarded the staple gun for my stapleless jigs once I reached the turn of the bulge. I found that the staples just did not give me the holding power required. If I was using jigs anyways to wrestle these strips (mostly at the stern), there was little point in continuing with staples. I found that the jigs were almost as fast easy, unless you wanted to do multiple strips at once.
g. Deck guard – the rub strip that I used at the deck/hull interface I would make it thinner that what I used. I went with 0.245” and I would likely take it down even further.
h. Building tip – sheer clamp. Kayakcraft shows using a filler to obtain the deck/sheer clamp transition (Fig 10-46). I opted to plane down the triangular non-contact area of the sheer clamp. This material is not necessary for strength and just adds extra weight. In the end, I still had to use a very small fillet because I planed the excess material off after the deck had been constructed and attached to the sheer clamp. It was too difficult to plane and sand close enough to negate completely the requirement for the fillet.
Overall impressions – I am very satisfied and would recommend the Endeavour design to anyone (of my size or bigger) who may be considering it!
:smile
Well, I have had some time to wet the hull (and deck…) and I can offer a few comments. For paddling impressions, keep in mind that I am 6’ 0” and 179 lbs (183 cm, 81 kg).
Stability
Initial stability - I found that the initial stability feels a bit unstable – until you get used to it. I don’t have cheek plates in yet, and my seat does not offer a great deal of lateral support. I think anchoring my but a little better will help transfer body control to the hull.
Secondary stability - is marvelous. Once you obtain a partial roll/lean, she feels very nice. This is very nice for executing turns and directional control. Read on..
Directional stability – tracking vs turning. Well, this design paradox often divides boats and boat seekers. I found my Endeavour really was a fence sitter. I did not incorporate a rudder or skeg. She tracks reasonably well on calm waters, but with my trim set-up requires constant attention with correction strokes and/or opposite roll to keep it tracking straight in rough water. The secondary stability really allows one to use a “roll correction” comfortably. She turns beautifully, especially for a 17’. Once a rotational velocity is imparted, the boat will continue to rotate/yaw at approx the same or slightly dampened rate. This rotation/yaw generally requires a corrective action to terminate. Overall, I found that even with a full aft seat position, I could still benefit from a further aft CG or alternately a little more aft lateral (submerged) area to assist with the tracking. I don’t yet have hatches installed, but before I consider any alterations (rudder, skeg, or build up my external stem), I would likely wait until I have an aft hatch so that I could experiment with small changes in gear/ballast placements. At this point I am reasonably satisfied with the paddling characteristics, after having the opportunity to develop a paddling “style” to exploit the characteristics of my Endeavour. Maybe future tripping with gear will reveal other characteristics as well…
Construction
As this is my first project, I have little to benchmark it against… I found that each step of the construction went very well, I just wish I had a time generating machine – I had trouble dedicating the time and dedicated workspace. I basically followed the steps in Kayakcraft (except perhaps the cockpit) and religiously followed the postings on BMB forum site. I found that Kayakcraft gave me approx 75% of what I needed. Other resources were Canoecraft, Nick Schade’s book The Strip-Built Seak Kayak, and the Guillemot. Thanks to al of those out there who have contributed to all of these great resources!
If I were to do this model again, I would likely consider doing the following different:
a. modify the aft deck to lower the profile. I know a few others out there have done so already.
b. Move the aft edge of the cockpit rearward slightly to offer more flexibility
c. Fwd bulkhead – in retrospect, I could have moved it further aft than I calculated. I guess it is still good for any super long legged folks that paddle mine
d. Strip orientation – I built cove up (during the inverted hull build). I might try a cove down next time
e. Artistic touch – I will not spend as much time of the hull sides making a pretty design. If I were to spend time making a design, it will be on the deck. I went for an uncomplicated deck design, which still looks alright, but I don’t think the fiddle time I spent on the hull was warranted…
f. Staples – I started out going down the staple road. I soon discarded the staple gun for my stapleless jigs once I reached the turn of the bulge. I found that the staples just did not give me the holding power required. If I was using jigs anyways to wrestle these strips (mostly at the stern), there was little point in continuing with staples. I found that the jigs were almost as fast easy, unless you wanted to do multiple strips at once.
g. Deck guard – the rub strip that I used at the deck/hull interface I would make it thinner that what I used. I went with 0.245” and I would likely take it down even further.
h. Building tip – sheer clamp. Kayakcraft shows using a filler to obtain the deck/sheer clamp transition (Fig 10-46). I opted to plane down the triangular non-contact area of the sheer clamp. This material is not necessary for strength and just adds extra weight. In the end, I still had to use a very small fillet because I planed the excess material off after the deck had been constructed and attached to the sheer clamp. It was too difficult to plane and sand close enough to negate completely the requirement for the fillet.
Overall impressions – I am very satisfied and would recommend the Endeavour design to anyone (of my size or bigger) who may be considering it!
:smile
Snowman back East
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canoeblderinmt
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 pm
- Location: Butte, MT
Snowman,
First, congrats again on a beautiful kayak. I really appreciate your last post. Great info on lots of important points. Especially on the seat/balance point. There was a kayak demo weekend here and I went twice: once to test kayaks and again with my G'White to show off/take a solo paddling lesson. The very knowledgeable rep from Eddyline kayaks was there. I paddled their 17 footer: almost a carbon copy of the Endeavour. He told me that Eddyline purposefully places their sea kayak seats 6" to 8" rearward of the balance point to help with tracking, and also it makes them more responsive to rear sweeps. I found this to be true, doing a "canoe sweep" around the back of that 17 foot kayak brought the boat around nicely, but it tracked like it was on rails. I tried several boats with various skegs on them: I don't think I will ever put one on a kayak. It totally killed the ability to move the back of the boat. Stern sweeps were almost innefective, you had to be underway and sweep the front to get them to turn. A definate no-go for a river.
Thanks for the tip on the sheer clamp, I'l make a note to chamfer this before mounting it. I guess I'll have to modify the molds so it will stay in the correct orientation. I'm already planning on lowering the aft deck.
Enjoy paddling your beautiful new kayak!
Greg
First, congrats again on a beautiful kayak. I really appreciate your last post. Great info on lots of important points. Especially on the seat/balance point. There was a kayak demo weekend here and I went twice: once to test kayaks and again with my G'White to show off/take a solo paddling lesson. The very knowledgeable rep from Eddyline kayaks was there. I paddled their 17 footer: almost a carbon copy of the Endeavour. He told me that Eddyline purposefully places their sea kayak seats 6" to 8" rearward of the balance point to help with tracking, and also it makes them more responsive to rear sweeps. I found this to be true, doing a "canoe sweep" around the back of that 17 foot kayak brought the boat around nicely, but it tracked like it was on rails. I tried several boats with various skegs on them: I don't think I will ever put one on a kayak. It totally killed the ability to move the back of the boat. Stern sweeps were almost innefective, you had to be underway and sweep the front to get them to turn. A definate no-go for a river.
Thanks for the tip on the sheer clamp, I'l make a note to chamfer this before mounting it. I guess I'll have to modify the molds so it will stay in the correct orientation. I'm already planning on lowering the aft deck.
Enjoy paddling your beautiful new kayak!
Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
Nice work, snowman. Nice to finally finish and get it out on the water, isn't it?
This is consistent with my own observations, although I've had moments in rough conditions where it tracks like an arrow ... generally within about 45 degrees on either side of upwind. The most difficulty I've had with tracking was in a strong tailwind with wind waves overtaking me and shoving the stern around, or strong rear quartering wind. Not really the Endeavour's fault - I believe those are difficult conditions for many designs.Snowman wrote:Directional stability – She tracks reasonably well on calm waters, but with my trim set-up requires constant attention with correction strokes and/or opposite roll to keep it tracking straight in rough water.
Yup - that and a cockpit recess make rolling a little more comfortable.a. modify the aft deck to lower the profile. I know a few others out there have done so already.
I use my forward bulkhead as my foot-brace. But I'm 6'5" and confident that there won't be many people with longer legs than mine paddling my boat.c. Fwd bulkhead – in retrospect, I could have moved it further aft than I calculated. I guess it is still good for any super long legged folks that paddle mine
I used 1/8" ash. I may go even thinner than that, next time.g. Deck guard – the rub strip that I used at the deck/hull interface I would make it thinner that what I used. I went with 0.245” and I would likely take it down even further.
Good idea - I'll have to remember that ... thanks.h. Building tip – sheer clamp. I opted to plane down the triangular non-contact area of the sheer clamp. This material is not necessary for strength and just adds extra weight.
Greg,
You noted that you might modify your molds to accept a triangular sheer clamp. I did not no that, as it was essentially an "afterthought." I assembled it exactly as per Kayakcraft (using the rectangular cross section), up until it was time to prepare the underside of the deck. It was at this point that took off the extra material from the sheer clamp.
I would probably do it again the same way for a couple of reasons. First, the procedure involves screwing the sheer clamp to the molds first in the vertical direction, while you strip the hull, and then in the horizontal direction while you strip the deck. The triangular section will be less well behaved and I envision some difficulties in screwing it on correctly (at least the first horizontal job). Also, I believe it would be a bit more difficult to correctly position the revised sheer clamp cut-outs to accept the triangular shape.
If you go down this road and are successful, make sure you let us know how it goes. I would likely try it if I know that someone else was successful and it saved work/time.
Ken,
The conditions that you have described (aft quartering wind/waves) are the precisely the conditions that gave me the most problems. The worst conditions that I have been in so far are approx 3-4 ft waves and 10 knots wind. I did not find it comfortable.
Your comments lead me to believe that you also find it a reasonably strong tracker. Since you are 6'5", I would guess that you also weigh in a bit heavier than myself. I suspect that I am a bit on the light side for the Endeavour and that it would track better with more weight (especially strategically placed). I would appreciate any info you could provide to help me understand your previous comments. How much do you weigh (it will stay anonymous - posted here on the internet...)? Do you have any payload? do you have any other special trim affecting conditions?
Snowman
You noted that you might modify your molds to accept a triangular sheer clamp. I did not no that, as it was essentially an "afterthought." I assembled it exactly as per Kayakcraft (using the rectangular cross section), up until it was time to prepare the underside of the deck. It was at this point that took off the extra material from the sheer clamp.
I would probably do it again the same way for a couple of reasons. First, the procedure involves screwing the sheer clamp to the molds first in the vertical direction, while you strip the hull, and then in the horizontal direction while you strip the deck. The triangular section will be less well behaved and I envision some difficulties in screwing it on correctly (at least the first horizontal job). Also, I believe it would be a bit more difficult to correctly position the revised sheer clamp cut-outs to accept the triangular shape.
If you go down this road and are successful, make sure you let us know how it goes. I would likely try it if I know that someone else was successful and it saved work/time.
Ken,
The conditions that you have described (aft quartering wind/waves) are the precisely the conditions that gave me the most problems. The worst conditions that I have been in so far are approx 3-4 ft waves and 10 knots wind. I did not find it comfortable.
Your comments lead me to believe that you also find it a reasonably strong tracker. Since you are 6'5", I would guess that you also weigh in a bit heavier than myself. I suspect that I am a bit on the light side for the Endeavour and that it would track better with more weight (especially strategically placed). I would appreciate any info you could provide to help me understand your previous comments. How much do you weigh (it will stay anonymous - posted here on the internet...)? Do you have any payload? do you have any other special trim affecting conditions?
Snowman
Snowman back East
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Bryan Hansel
- Posts: 678
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- Contact:
The kayak looks great!
Quarting waves and winds are always a hard condition to paddle in regardless of the boat, me thinks. It sounds to me, that you might benefit with the installation of a skeg just for these types of conditions.
This may be a stupid question, but have you paddled other kayaks in those type of conditions, 3 to 4' waves with 10 knot winds, before? And if so, how did you feel compared to this kayak?
You might want to try tossing a couple of Nalgene bottles in the very rear of the kayak and see what happens.
Quarting waves and winds are always a hard condition to paddle in regardless of the boat, me thinks. It sounds to me, that you might benefit with the installation of a skeg just for these types of conditions.
This may be a stupid question, but have you paddled other kayaks in those type of conditions, 3 to 4' waves with 10 knot winds, before? And if so, how did you feel compared to this kayak?
You might want to try tossing a couple of Nalgene bottles in the very rear of the kayak and see what happens.
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canoeblderinmt
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 pm
- Location: Butte, MT
Snowman,
I'll definitely have to have a good head-scratching session over this idea of using a triangular sheer clamp. As soon as I read of your idea of planing off the back of the clamp instead of using a fillet, I got out Kayakcraft to look at the various drawings and pictures. The first issue that hit me was the one you brought up in your reply: Getting enough meat for the screws to hold. The other issues I see are modifying the notch in each mold to hold a triangular sheer and then making a jig to safely cut an 18' long narrow triangular sheer. It may not be worth the effort. What would I save, maybe a pound or two at most? But I'll think on it some and let you know if I am crazy enough to try something like that. I just had a thought...What about aluminum angle? More to think about
Greg
I'll definitely have to have a good head-scratching session over this idea of using a triangular sheer clamp. As soon as I read of your idea of planing off the back of the clamp instead of using a fillet, I got out Kayakcraft to look at the various drawings and pictures. The first issue that hit me was the one you brought up in your reply: Getting enough meat for the screws to hold. The other issues I see are modifying the notch in each mold to hold a triangular sheer and then making a jig to safely cut an 18' long narrow triangular sheer. It may not be worth the effort. What would I save, maybe a pound or two at most? But I'll think on it some and let you know if I am crazy enough to try something like that. I just had a thought...What about aluminum angle? More to think about
Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."