New Design

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:31 am

I thought I would toss out a design I have been working on. Goals are a very lightweight one man canoe. Strip construction for fishing out of and exploring small creeks. For those times when I just don't want to fool with the Kayak. I toss this one in the truck and go.

As drawn it's 12 ft long with a 30" beam. Coming from kayaks this beam seems HUGE to me so I may narrow it a bit. It appears however to have great stability. I am just concerned about banging the paddle on the gunwales.

I am not satisfied with the Stems. The shape needs a little work but you can see what I have in mind.

I was working on a deck version and lost it. (Stupid computer ..... operator) I was thinking of two sealed compartments in the ends with snap in hatches. That provides dry storage a flotation. Leave enough space in the boat for a ice chest behind the paddler. That would a luxury! Would be a good place to put fish too.

Comments welcome.

canoeblderinmt · Post by **canoeblderinmt** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:03 pm

Kudzu,
Looks like a good start. The bottom seems pretty flat, which will provide good initial stability. Also, a gentle curve around the bilge, so she shouldn't go over all at once on you, but have good secondary stability as well. Since you are going to poking around on small waters, what about adding some rocker as well? At 13', she should be fairly easy to turn, but a little upsweep at the ends might make a dramatic change in maneuverability.

Looks like you are looking at about 4 to 4 1/2" of free board. After adding a full cooler anchor(?), etc, you might want to add a few more strips amidships.

Looking forward to seeing the build!

Greg

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:16 pm

This is my first attempt at a canoe. Some of my Kayaking preferences have carried over to this design simply because I wasn't sure what to do.

I just drew it flat bottomed because it was simplest and I knew I could then could add some rocker latter. I honestly wasn't sure how much to put. I know hulls in the water behave similarly be it Kayak or Canoe. It's a good place to start and get comments and do some research.

Gunwale height had me stumped too. Coming from 24" wide kayak this seems tall and wide and just begging to bust some knuckles. I know a lot depends on seat height too. This "appeared" in line with a canoe I have admired photos of.

All this is why I tossed it out to see what you Canoe guys would say.Hoping some more chime in.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:36 pm

If you can pull in the gunwales a bit, this will create "tumblehome" and reduce or eliminate the knuckle bashing.

PS: the center depth is normally around 12".

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:05 am

You'll most likely have to paddle with a double blade, since a 12' length will mean that it'll turn very easily, with or without rocker. The 30" beam might mean it'll be too wide to paddle with a single blade comfortably from a sitting position, so that might also make using a double blade necessary.

Kneeling, you might be able to paddle leaned over more comfortably, but control and straight line tracking might be a problem. Flat-bottomed canoes usually don't paddle well leaned over - but I can't tell whether this will be an issue in yours.

A skeg can help keep the canoe going straight if a single blade is being used.

Goals are a very lightweight one man canoe

The flat bottom doesn't look overly flat, but if the canoe is going to be built for lightness, a shallow arch hull will be more rigid and structurally stronger than if it is flat. If the flat area is built with thin strips and then flexes (oilcans) in the water, this will degrade performance and the bottom might weaken. The Rob Roy shown in Canoecraft does not have a flat bottom in the central stations, and IMO the rounder bottom is better, structurally. A flat bottom that flexes might need ribs or a keel to prevent flexing which adds weight.

The flared sides will provide more secondary stability but will also need more massive gunwales to keep them rigid, which adds weight. Some tumblehome near the sheerline, or shouldered tumblehome like designed into the new Freedom solo, would add structural rigidity to the sides and help keep gunwales thin and light.

That's all I've got... good luck!

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:54 am

Thanks for the input. This started largely because I was sick and didn't have the strength to go to the shop and work. I have just finished up two Kayak designs I will start building in the next few weeks. I was bored and I have always thought I would like to have a small Double Paddle canoe so I decided to just piddle with a design and see what I came up with. I pleasantly surprised myself and I like it. Being my first attempt a canoe I didn't have much expectation..

I appreciate the suggestions and I agree with most of them. I should have added that this was meant to be paddled sitting down on or near the floor with a double paddle. My inspiration was the Indian Girl I found listed on Duck Works web side. So I just started with their width and length. I have always admired the Wee Lassie by Mac McCarty too. Looking at it I see it is shorter and has less beam as I would have expected for a double paddle boat.

The round bottom should have occurred to me when I was working on it, but I will blame that on the drug induced state I was in at the time. :-)

I love the look of Tumble Home on most any boat.. I actually thought about it at one point but just didn't do anything. (drugs again).

I will probably work on refining this design some more this week. I finally feel like I can do some work again and do it safely. Thanks very much for the input.

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:28 pm

Funny how when I get sick (again) I end up working on this canoe. Had a relapse of what ever this is and was bored so came back to this design and did a bit more to it.

Rounded the bottom a bit. Narrowed it up and added some tumble home. Still not thrilled with the ends yet. I know what I want but I haven't hit it yet. Plus I am thinking about decking it. If I go that way I will have to reshape it anyway.

canoeblderinmt · Post by **canoeblderinmt** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:00 am

Kudzu,
It's starting to look dangerously like a canoe

Greg

PS: I like the stems.

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:58 pm

Thanks. It's growing on me too. Kayaks are still my first choice. But the more I look at this one the more I like it. Might have to build one after the kayaks are done.

Guess I just need an exscuse....... Would be better to fish out of. :twisted evil

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:32 pm

Looking very good! What is the width? Do you have hydrostatic data for this design?

You might want a bit more tumblehome. A close up look at the stems does show that they need a bit of refining.

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:34 pm

I can run the Hydros on in it in and paste them in. I was looking at it earlier and surprised at resistance figures. They went up pretty quick compared to the kayaks. I assume some of that has to do with the shorter length and it wanting to dig a hole quicker? But this was never intended as High Speed or long distance boat.

Well, I just realized that I never narrowed up the boat as I intended. It is 30" wide. I had meant to narrow it to 26" or there abouts. That could account for the higher resistance.

The ends are actually smoother on the screen. When I print the lines plan they come out 'lumpy' looking. I agree on the tumble home too. A bit more will make it look better.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:04 pm

Making the hull narrower will initially reduce the resistance but then you will have to increase the draft to meet the displacement requirements and that will again increase the resistance.

cecbell · Post by **cecbell** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:48 pm

Kudzu, that's looking pretty good. One of the things I'm wondering about is the amount of hollow in the ends. To my eye, which is certainly less than expert, it seems somewhat severe for a short boat. It might be worth a try to make a copy of the file to play with and see what giving it a straight entry and exit would do for the residual resistance, which seems to take a sharp turn for the worse at about 4 kts. Reducing the hollow might also help the stability a bit. Just a thought.

Kudzu · Post by **Kudzu** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:19 pm

Glen Smith wrote:You might want a bit more tumblehome.

Messed around with this a bit more and it improves the looks for sure. Question is, how do you get the stations out?? Just build it kayak style? Two pieces and join them off the molds? I want to save the stations so I can build another one.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:34 pm

When you have finished glassing the outer hull you remove the hull with all the forms from the strongback and position the canoe upright. To remove the forms you tap at one corner of a form with a hammer ( I use a rubber mallet ) tapping in the direction of the canoe center since it gets wider toward the center. The form should turn sideways and you should be able to easily remove it.

If you have a lot of tumblehome all the way to the stems it will make it a bit difficult to remove the last forms but you should be able to pry them loose then slide them back and out.