Help! Two potential catastrophies!

[Cam]

So, I've been working on my first canoe the past few weekends, and got to the point of bending the stems today...and I think I may have screwed them up. The canoe is a Ranger with the plans lofted from Canoecraft, and the inner stems are cedar, outer are Walnut...on to the pictures, oh, and I apologize for the pics, my cell phone camera was the only one around.



So, this one was the first one I bent, and I was focused more on getting it bent that lining up the wood correctly, and I ended up with the very inner piece positioned with a big chip right near the bilge end...my question is, will this be something I can shape out later, as it will not be touching the strips, but will be visible from inside the canoe?



This one is more serious I think...the outer piece broke completely the first go 'round, so I replaced it with an extra piece I had already cut...then it started to split too! I managed to contain the split to approx 1/2 the thickness of the wood, and have clamped the crap out of it using the previously broken stem as a long clamp pad to distribute the load over the entire area. Now, can I still use this piece by using epoxy to glue the split shut, and moving this piece to the middle of the 3 outer stem pieces, or am I going to need to replace it? Hoping to avoid replacement, as I'm out of walnut, but I don't want to sacrifice the quality/strength of the canoe.

Thanks for the input

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[Glen Smith]

For the inner stem, no problem, you can shape that before installing the stem.

For the outer stem, I would start over again, this time using a sacrificial piece on top of the last strip. This sacrificial strip will take the tension and might split but that is why we call it sacrificial.

One note. When I cut strips for stems I make sure the face grain is on the wider surface and the edge grain on the edge. We usually purchase boards that have the face grain on the top and bottom. If you just rip strips from this board, the grain orientation will invite splitting. You need to cut a piece equal to the width of the stem pieces you need then flip it over 90 degrees and rip the strips out of that. It will bend more easily and won't tend to split as much but you should still add the sacrificial strip on top of the stack for the steaming and bending process. It will also act as a clamp pad.

[Cam]

That's what I was afraid of...Thanks for the help.

[Glen Smith]

Technically, you could get away with fixing the crack with epoxy. On the other hand, would you like to build a canoe always thinking that the very first part installed is patched? If you think you would be comfortable with that, go ahead. It won't affect the appearance or the handling one iota. It's your call.

[Davesbuild]

Cam,

Sorry to hear of your "woes"

I am new to this as well... just about finished my first canoe, but I'll give you my two cents and hopefully some of the "more seasoned" builders can pipe in....

I would suggest that you may be able to epoxy the outer walnut piece and clamp tight to eliminate any sign of the crack. Being the outer piece, it will be spoke shaved down in width, and likely depth when done. The small amount that will remain of the outer piece will likely not be too noticable if a glued crack is present....

The first photo I think shows the inner most piece of the inner stem with a piece missing (a chip is missing)...I assume that by "near the bilge" you are indicating that it is at the bottom of the stem (closest to the water when finished?).....this will be seen indide the canoe... however nothing really attaches to this piece... it may be possible to cut this square (just the inner 1/4" piece) and splice a replacement piece after the stems come off the mold.

A couple of questions Cam... Did you steam or soak the stem pieces before trying to bend them? If you don't have a set-up for steaming, simply soak the pieces in the bathtub overnight and heat the wood with a heat-gun while bending them. the next day.....This is what I did and had no problems.

and

......are you trying to glue and bend the stem pieces in one step? Bending first (without glue) - then glue them together (inner / outer of course) a day or two later will eliminate the need to get everything bent and aligned while glue is ousing out all over... just a thought...also what I did, again without problems...

Hope this helps... as I said, other "more seasoned" builders may be able to share their wisdom...

Good Luck,
Davesbuild

[Davesbuild]

sorry Glen... you are definitely a "seasoned builder", however when I wrote my reply, there were no responses up yet to Cam's question..

Davesbuild

[Cam]

Dave, I've got basically the same set up as described in Canoecraft, but using a campstove and kettle, rather than an electric kettle...my wife didn't like the idea of me stealing the kitchen kettle...and the walnut has been soaking for about a week in a bathtub of water - it seemed very dry when I got it, and I had every intention of doing the steaming during the week after work. I have not glued anything as of yet.

I'll give it some time, and have a look tomorrow. If I think it can be saved, I'll give it a shot. I mean, worst comes to worst, when the time comes to install the outer stems, I can always bend another in place, right?

Hmm, just thinking here, could I leave the outer stems un-glued for now (secure the bend with string) and once I get the hull stripped, and it comes time to install the outer stems, cut a piece of ash (which I'll be using for the gunnels) and bend that over the outside, replacing the outer piece of both the outer stems? Could make them a little more interesting to look at (Ash/Walnut/Cedar hull) What do you think? It would also save me buying a big chunk of walnut to replace the little strip I need.

The inner stem I'm not too concerned about, as after looking at some more pictures today, that portion is shaved down and faired into the hull anyway.

Thanks for the input guys!

[Davesbuild]

Cam,

I know what you mean about borrowing your wife's "tools". I destroyed a pair of kitchen scissors while glassing the inside of the hull on the weekend - I had to replace them with a new pair...she hasn't noticed the knife missing yet :rolling eyes

The light (ash) piece on the outer part of the outer stem sounds good... would make a distinguishable look to the stem....

I chamfered the top edge of my inner stem to provide a better look... you could taper it somewhat, however it does not get "faired" to the hull (at least on any canoes that I have seen??), as Glen said, it's your call...

Good Luck,
Davesbuild

[Glen Smith]

This photo of Ealger's shows how we usually round over the inboard end of the inner stems:

[Davesbuild]

I did say that you are "seasoned".

Thanks Glen,
Dave

[Cam]

Okay, so I did think the world was ending...but it's not!

Thank you for the picture Glen, something like that will make the chip disappear entirely!

When I was cutting the strips for the stems, I thought to myself 'if 1/4" strips will bend easily, 1/8" must bend easier!' so proceeded to cut 8 strips before realizing that the increased waste from double the cuts meant I would run out of knot free wood before I got all my strips...but wow do they bend easy! I finished cutting the rest of my strips, and bent them with the previously shown results...but in my excitement/impatience to make actual progress on the canoe I grabbed all 8 eighth in. strips and bent them! Meaning, I made one outer stem (the one I didn't break) 1/4" too thick. So, to replace the broken strip, I just need to move two of the 1/8" strips from one stem to the other! I don't think my impatience/inattention has ever worked out to be a good thing before!

Now, had I paid attention at all the right points, I wouldn't have had to luck out! Lesson learned...I hope. Well, anything worth doing is worth doing twice...or is it well?

[Glen Smith]

Just pick out the two consecutive strips that have the same bend radius as the broken piece and you are on your way.

[Cam]

Yeah, I'll be swapping over the two outer pieces when I glue them up. With the walnut soaking for 7 days, I figure I'll wait until next weekend before glueing, just to be sure they are nice and dry. I'm nervous about springback when I take them off the stem molds though to finish drying...how long should I wait? Also, I'll do a search on here, but what do you guys think about using wood glue or Gorilla glue to glue up the stems? They'll be 'glassed in, so I'm thinking it should be okay...

Thanks for the help!

[Glen Smith]

Tie a string between the ends like a bow string to help preserve the shape until glue-up time. If there are any gaps between the strips, thickened epoxy would be the best choice. If there are no gaps, just about any glue will do the job since you will be applying epoxy on the stems and you can also wrap a piece of bias-cut cloth over them if you desire.

[ealger]

Cam, I'm not a big fan of Gorilla glue. Others on this forum swear by it. I personally think its too hard to keep it off my skin and tools. For stem lamination, wood glue sets up too quickly for the way I work. I find thickened epoxy gives me the time to do a deliberate lay-up.

I can't tell from your photos if you're using 3 or 5 strips. I've been more successful with 5 strips (10 total for inner + outer stems).

When I use Walnut for the outer stems, I try and pick as straight grain as possible. It's not as easy as using Ash! If the grain is not perfectly vertical, the soaking/steaming will tend to raise the grain on one edge more than the other. When this happens, swap alternate strips end for end to keep the pile even.

Use some vertical wood strips along the side of the stem mold to help keep the strips aligned. Take your time making your stems. Don't be satisfied until you have them straight and clean. You'll be pleased with the results in the end!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/ ... C_2256.jpg
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/ ... spector16/
Ed..

PS. I use 1/2" MDF for my molds. I lay the stem molds side by side and layup the stem strips which I cut 1" wide. This allows the strips to be aligned easily. (See the photos)