Hi all,
I am considering starting a canoe project this fall. I am looking for a canoe that I can take my two children in (they are about 45 lbs each). I would like to be able to use it with one child, two children or with my wife, never with all four. I will be putting on top of the minivan by myself.
I was thinking 15' would be right, that is not much more than a hunch. The tandem kayak we have is 17' long and 70lbs, and rather a pain to get on the roof.
I was looking at the Hiawatha, until one of the posts in the forum suggested that it is the least stable canoe on this web site.
Does anyone have any suggestions???
Thanks,
John
which canoe is right for me??????
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Bob/PA
Hiawatha
I built a Hiwatha to the original design and found it to have poor initial stability. It's fine in motion, but not when not. I would not think it a good choice with small kids, especially during the loading process. I understand that the current version of the Hiawatha is a little less tippy than the old one, but the numbers still suggest that you'd be happier with another boat.
My other boat, a David Hazen Micmac, is much more stable, both initially and in motion. It has never offered to capsize even when carrying an 80-pound Gordon setter with an enthusiastic interest in every passing merganser and mallard, to say nothing of trout coming aboard. However, it is a 17-footer and maybe more than you want at the moment.
On the other hand, consider that your children will not be young and small forever, and if the canoeing bug bites, you may wish you had something you could use as a tripper, which a sport canoe like the Hiawatha is not.
Bob's Special (no relation) seems to be a popular compromise. If I were building another boat (after the divorce) I'd take long look at that one.
My other boat, a David Hazen Micmac, is much more stable, both initially and in motion. It has never offered to capsize even when carrying an 80-pound Gordon setter with an enthusiastic interest in every passing merganser and mallard, to say nothing of trout coming aboard. However, it is a 17-footer and maybe more than you want at the moment.
On the other hand, consider that your children will not be young and small forever, and if the canoeing bug bites, you may wish you had something you could use as a tripper, which a sport canoe like the Hiawatha is not.
Bob's Special (no relation) seems to be a popular compromise. If I were building another boat (after the divorce) I'd take long look at that one.
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Guest
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john
thank's Bob
I know that my kids wont be small forever (although it really is hard to imagine them as teenagers!). They have just grown to the point where putting the three of us in our tandem kayak is too crowded. I am hoping that a 15 or 16 foot canoe will be comfortable for two or three of us, and that when we go as a family of four we will take the kayak and the canoe both.
We currently have a Sevlor inflatable canoe that we use when there are four of us, but it is kind of hard to keep up with the Neckky in it.
I am thinking that when they reach a certain age they will want a small boat of their own to paddle, and maybe my wife and I will be in the same boat again!! My neighbor bought his 12 year old an "Old town Otter" maybe if I like strip building I will make a "wee lassie" or some such when the kids are of an age.
John
We currently have a Sevlor inflatable canoe that we use when there are four of us, but it is kind of hard to keep up with the Neckky in it.
I am thinking that when they reach a certain age they will want a small boat of their own to paddle, and maybe my wife and I will be in the same boat again!! My neighbor bought his 12 year old an "Old town Otter" maybe if I like strip building I will make a "wee lassie" or some such when the kids are of an age.
John
Hi, John,
Three paddlers in a 15' canoe is cramped with adults or teens, however with kids it'll probably be fine until they start their growth spurt. Sixteen-foot canoes in the symmetrical designs are generally recommended for general use, having enough capacity going tandem with gear, or with a third paddler in the center.
You would probably want the more stable designs, since kids will move around - the 15' foot Ranger or the 16' Prospector should be good, all-round boats. The 17' foot Nomad and 17.9' Freedom will have more room with the Freedom having the most stability of all, and there's also the option of adding a third, removeable seat. The seventeen-footers may be too heavy and too much boat in winds, and again later on, when the kids can paddle the kayak themselves.
Good luck with your choice - canoes, if they're maintained well, will last a long time, so in the long view, my choice would be a 16' Prospector, since stability will be needed those first few years. Later on, the versatility in the design will give back benefits in being able to carry heavier loads when needed, relative safety in rough waters, whitewater potential, and not-bad solo capability whenever the need is there.
Three paddlers in a 15' canoe is cramped with adults or teens, however with kids it'll probably be fine until they start their growth spurt. Sixteen-foot canoes in the symmetrical designs are generally recommended for general use, having enough capacity going tandem with gear, or with a third paddler in the center.
You would probably want the more stable designs, since kids will move around - the 15' foot Ranger or the 16' Prospector should be good, all-round boats. The 17' foot Nomad and 17.9' Freedom will have more room with the Freedom having the most stability of all, and there's also the option of adding a third, removeable seat. The seventeen-footers may be too heavy and too much boat in winds, and again later on, when the kids can paddle the kayak themselves.
Good luck with your choice - canoes, if they're maintained well, will last a long time, so in the long view, my choice would be a 16' Prospector, since stability will be needed those first few years. Later on, the versatility in the design will give back benefits in being able to carry heavier loads when needed, relative safety in rough waters, whitewater potential, and not-bad solo capability whenever the need is there.
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Guest
Thanks Rick
The Ranger and the Prospector both look good, maybe 16' will be better than 15. All I want is a boat that is big when it gets to the water but is small when I am heaving it onto the top of the van - that's not too much to ask, is it???
You mentioned white water, we have a very gentle rapids on the Huron River near my house, I have done it both with the roto-mold kayak and the inflatable. how do these strip built boats handle the occasional rock?? They say they are strong, but I know I will be terrified the first time I get near that section of the river.
John
You mentioned white water, we have a very gentle rapids on the Huron River near my house, I have done it both with the roto-mold kayak and the inflatable. how do these strip built boats handle the occasional rock?? They say they are strong, but I know I will be terrified the first time I get near that section of the river.
John
Well, pulverizing rocks in shallow rivers will not be the best use of the cedarstrip, but an occasional scrape's to be expected. A real plus of cedarstrips is they can be easily repaired, so varnishing over scratches, and applying a patch when needed won't be difficult once the boat is built. If a lot of abrasion and rock contact is anticipated, a double layer of glass over the football, added glass under the stems and the graphite/silica epoxy coating mentioned earlier on will help.
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Steve Lansdowne
Consider having some type of roller on the rear rack of the minivan roof, and perhaps even on the front rack as well. That way you lift half the canoe up there at first (the other end is on the ground, perhaps on a towel or cushion to protect it) and then lift this second half up and roll the canoe forward onto the minivan. I do this with the canoe inverted, which makes it easy to rest on the rollers and to tie down. This makes things much easier than trying to lift/balance the entire canoe all at once, even if it is light. A sudden gust of wind or other unforseen event can create problems when loading it onto the car if you're trying to balance it all by yourself without having one end stabilized.
What
John A year ago I was in the same boat ( two kids age 4 and 6 ). What worked for me was I built a Redbird at 16 .5 ft and it came in at 58 lbs and could go lighter ( excluding bulkheads, long cherry decks, deep dish cherry yolk). The Redbird original size comes in at something like 94 in the stability scale and I'm not sure if that increased with me shortening her. The depth at 12 inches seems to worry some people but does not seem to be a factor with us. It's light ,it's quick it's stable handles like nothing I have ever paddled. Also has the high stem s (That caught your eye in the Hiawatha ). As you may have notice I am very happy with it and so are the kids.
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Guest
how did you shorten the redbird
The original Redbird comes in at 17'6", how did you chop a foot off?? Are there instructions in the plans for which stations to omit?
Thanks,
It does look beautiful.
John
Thanks,
It does look beautiful.
John
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patrick pfeifer
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patrick pfeifer