Wood for Construction

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ov10fac
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Wood for Construction

Post by ov10fac »

I am planning on building a Hiawatha from the CanoeCraft book. But I would like to build it out of local woods. Here in Omaha we have, Oak, Walnut, Cottonwood, Elm, Hackberry, and a few others, but no Western Red Cedar.

I was considering using Cottonwood with Hackberry and Walnut accents. Has anyone used Cottonwood or Hackberry? Cottonwood is light enough, but has some machining issues. Hackberry machines well, but is about 60% heavier than cedar. Makes the Hiawatha 60 to 80 pounds.

Just looking for ideas at this point.

Thanks

John Wright
AlanWS
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Post by AlanWS »

The strength is mostly from the glass, with the wood providing a stable separation between layers of glass. Lighter wood is nice because it makes a lighter boat, but anything will work. I believe cottonwood is the lightest of those you mention, but the question is whether it will machine and bend smoothly. I don't recall whether the Hiawatha has any sharp curves, but they might be what determines whether a relatively brittle wood can be used. You could try cutting a few strips and seeing whether they bend nicely to smooth curves.

If it tends to fuzz on machining, you could just sand it after the sealcoat of epoxy, and it would smooth nicely. Wood that does not machine well could be trouble while routing bead and flute edges to your strips. It would be less of a problem for the rolling bevel approach.
Alan
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ov10fac
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Post by ov10fac »

Alan,

Thank you. When I said machine problems, it tends to fuzz, but from what I have read otherwise it machines fine.

I'll take your advice and try to machine some and see what I get.

Thanks for the input.

John
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Larry in Champaign
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Post by Larry in Champaign »

Menards should have Western Red Cedar. Last winter I picked up enough 2x4x10s for two canoes for $135. I sorted through the entire stack selecting first for the clearest boards and then I got picky and only kept the lightest ones. If you are lucky they might have some good 1x boards. Good luck!

Larry

By the way, do you drive your avitar? :eyebrows
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ov10fac
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Post by ov10fac »

Larry,

Never thought about using 2x lumber. I'll check that out tomorrow.

Thanks.

John
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Scot T
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Post by Scot T »

Cottonwood is an excellent wood but you do have to take note of a few special techniques.

I've not made a boat out of it but I don't see why it wouldn't work just fine. I've used it for furniture a few times. The fuzzing mainly comes about with less than sharp tools, keep them super sharp, and with sanding. I just gave a good sanding sealer (a thinned coat of varnish, in my case) before the final sand and all was fine for a nice finish. This might be a good case for that coat of epoxy before glassing the boat. at least it would cure the fuzz.

How about Poplar? Don't you have those in Nebraska as well? I seem to remember the big Poplars at my Grandparents home a little further west from you in Torrington, Wyoming. That could be an alternative. It's very stable, plenty strong enough, looks pretty fine under a finish, takes a stain (should you need one) exceptionally well and does sand to a beautiful finish.
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ov10fac
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Post by ov10fac »

Poplar is a great idea. I have used it in furniture building for years, but never thought about it for canoes. I have a few trips to local sawmills planned so that's a good one to put on the list.

Which brings up another question. What moisture content is necessary for strip building. I don't have a kiln so air drying is the best I could do. If I need lower moisture content I may have to devise a way to dry it. (Solar kiln looks interesting)

Anyway, many thanks for the advice, I will look into Poplar.

jo
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

A few years ago I bought some cedar boards which were soaking wet. I marked one board with a large X and weighed it to be my witness board. I then stacked and stickered the boards in my driveway. If rain was predicted, I placed a tarp over the wood. Every 2 days I would rotate the boards in the stack. After 2 weeks I weighed my witness board again and note quite a change in the weight but still a bit heavy. Then I would weigh that board once per week and when there was no weight change between two readings, it was ready to use. We had plenty of sunshine and breezy days that year so this only took about 4 to 5 weeks to complete. The wood was very easy to work with after the drying process.
podunk
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Post by podunk »

Try woodfinder.com. You can put in your zipcode, species of wood and mileage and it will give you available suppliers. Site also has some good info on properties and specific gravity of wood. I used it to find a WRC suppplier within 35 miles that I never would have thought to check into. Good Luck
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Jim Dodd
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Post by Jim Dodd »

Menards has always been a great supplier for me!!
I have a friend in Nebraska that has strips for sale also, if you don't have time to cut your own, I can hook you up.

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
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ov10fac
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Post by ov10fac »

Jim,

Many thanks. Right now I plan on making my own strips, but I appreciate the offer. If my plans change, I may ask for his name.

John
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ov10fac
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Post by ov10fac »

Glen,

Many thanks, exactly what I wanted to know. I read that kiln dried is best, but without a kiln..., I also can't help but think what people did before kilns were invented. The canoe has been around longer than kiln dried wood.

Again, many thanks for the information.

John
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

Actually, kiln-dried is necessary for furniture grade lumber. Air-dried lumber cut into strips will be easier to bend to the compound curves of a canoe shape.
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ov10fac
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Decision

Post by ov10fac »

Well,

For those of you how are interested, I have made a decision on what to build my canoe from. After checking out Menard's cedar (about $50 for 1"X12"X12" (nominal), I am going to look at some local saw mills.

I have already checked and found Cottonwood available. After obtaining a piece and running it over my jointer, it looks pretty nice. Clear, almost white and some interesting grain.

I will be using box elder in conjunction with the cottonwood to give some contrast. I have found some hackberry so I will use that for gunnals and I plan on using some sycamore for the seats and thwards, I may use some walnut and/or red oak I have for the decks.

Don't have a price yet, but if nothing else it should be an interesting combination.

Thanks to everyone for support and advice.

John
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pawistik
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Post by pawistik »

It seems that no-one has mentioned it (though perhaps I missed it), but you can build from thinner strips, especially when building with the heavier (and usually stronger) woods. Reduce the thickness of your strips from 1/4" to perhaps 3/16". (Someone with experience in building from hardwoods can surely chime in here.)

Also, you might save weight in other places, such as in the hardware and fiberglass. Often we have a tendency to over-build. Keep that in mind & make things only as thick as they actually need be. This can apply especially to your gunwales & deck plates I think. Don't make your stems any larger than need be, and the same with any fillets. You could consider stemless methods as described in the books by Gilpatrick and Schade. You might consider using 4 ounce fiberglass, inside & out, maybe with a second layer on the football for greater protection. It's not just the 2 ounces per square yard of cloth weight that you save with the thinner cloth, but also significant amounts of epoxy to wet-out the cloth, and less to fill the finer weave. Another factor will be your care and skill in wetting-out and squeegeeing away the excess epoxy. Those of us that are novices will likely end up with an imperfect job and a heavier boat than the experts like Glen with a lot of boats under their belt. Still, with some care and practice, we can do pretty well too.

Here is an article that is worth reading and taking into consideration as you build: http://www.nessmuking.com/articles/ligh ... -tripping/

Anyway, your choices sound great and I look forward to seeing your results.

Cheers,
Bryan
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