Update on Stapless Freedom17 /w Rolling Bevel
Jig
Tim,
I'll try and get some photos for you this weekend.
Snowman, yeah, I could see where thickness of strips could pose a problem, but it really wasn't any big deal with any of the strips I've done, and I don't bother to plane them after ripping them on the table saw. Kickback...huh, you are taking off such a small amount of material...never even came close to any problems with that. The biggest issue is adjusting the router bit right, but not bad with a plunge router. Even with two routers on and doing both edges at the same time, I didn't have any problems. Different strokes for different folks.
Far and away the easiest way I've found to do the strips myself without a helper. :smile [/list]
I'll try and get some photos for you this weekend.
Snowman, yeah, I could see where thickness of strips could pose a problem, but it really wasn't any big deal with any of the strips I've done, and I don't bother to plane them after ripping them on the table saw. Kickback...huh, you are taking off such a small amount of material...never even came close to any problems with that. The biggest issue is adjusting the router bit right, but not bad with a plunge router. Even with two routers on and doing both edges at the same time, I didn't have any problems. Different strokes for different folks.
Far and away the easiest way I've found to do the strips myself without a helper. :smile [/list]
router jig
Sorry, was away camping last weekend :smile
here's a link to some shots...sorry they aren't the best to see maybe, but good enough to give you the idea. Just 3/4"plywood with 1/4" plywood and some paper in this case. The hole for the strips was very slightly larger than my strips. I've done enough for three 16'ers with this setup and ripped my strips on tablesaw and fed them through jig. Personally, I never had a problem with them binding...but I suppose you could plane or thickness sand any strips that happened to be too thick if that happened to you.
http://sports.webshots.com/album/574310701JqgAEH[/url]
here's a link to some shots...sorry they aren't the best to see maybe, but good enough to give you the idea. Just 3/4"plywood with 1/4" plywood and some paper in this case. The hole for the strips was very slightly larger than my strips. I've done enough for three 16'ers with this setup and ripped my strips on tablesaw and fed them through jig. Personally, I never had a problem with them binding...but I suppose you could plane or thickness sand any strips that happened to be too thick if that happened to you.
http://sports.webshots.com/album/574310701JqgAEH[/url]
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You are correct that it doesn't...but there is a hole on the other side of the jig offset on the otherside of the strip slot for a second router (so a router on top and one on the bottom. I originally used a friends Frued Router like mine and did both sides at once. But there is noway chips would go out the other hole when using one router. The last couple times I've used it I only used one router and I never had a problem with clogging. I suspect it's such a small amount coming off and they come up through the router opening just fine.
A really simple jig that works just fine in my opinion.
A really simple jig that works just fine in my opinion.
Hi,mbolton wrote:You are correct that it doesn't...but there is a hole on the other side of the jig offset on the otherside of the strip slot for a second router .
Great Jig - really simple. What sort of tollerences did you allow for the slot that the strip feeds through - did you have much trouble with binding?
Cheers
Bruce
PS Tim, the new boat is looking great I can't wait to get mine started now!
jig
For the width of the strips, just slightly wider...less than 1/32 or so and for the thickness of strips, I just put a thin piece of paper on top of the 1/4" plywood...so not much. Only a very few strips gave me trouble...set them aside until end and just knock down problem areas with hand plane or run them trough planer if bad would work
I haven't been able to find my notes which contained the info on the hot glue I bought. I'll keep looking.
I gave the edges of my plywood forms a wipe with shellac prior to stripping. I didn't have problems with the hot glue - it held when it was supposed to and knocked off okay when I removed the hull from the forms.
I gave the edges of my plywood forms a wipe with shellac prior to stripping. I didn't have problems with the hot glue - it held when it was supposed to and knocked off okay when I removed the hull from the forms.
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sluggo wrote:hot glue....
from Hotstik HS-300, 7/16"
Hey Sluggo that's awesome thanks! Sure enough it looks like I was using the wrong hot glue.
Thanks man!
tim
Tim Eastman
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This may be my first post here... can't remember since I registered a while back. Anyway, howdy folks.mbolton wrote:A really simple jig that works just fine in my opinion.
Great little jig! If I ever use bead and cove I'll be sure to do it that way, and I have a $350 PRL (precision router lift) from Woodpecker holding a big 3 1/4 HP Porter Cable 7518 router. Your way is just a more elegant solution. I can see making it with little internal springs to push the strips against the internal "fence". That way you could build in enough clearance to allow for strip variation. Of course, then you wouldn't be able to do two passes at once.
I don't get the rolling bevel part. Doesn't that way put the same angle on the bevel throuout the strip length?
Also possible that I'm a little dense today.
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Hey Battenkiller - welcome to the fray.Battenkiller wrote:mbolton wrote:
I don't get the rolling bevel part. Doesn't that way put the same angle on the bevel throuout the strip length?
Also possible that I'm a little dense today.
The rolling bevel angle needs to change as you go along the strip yes. Hence the name,..the plane has to roll along the length of the strip at varying angles. Works just fine.
The canoe at left was made by rolling bevel and survived the BWCA just fine.
Tim Eastman
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Sorry to confuse.
I already knew what a rolling bevel was, I just don't quite understand how the stepped-rail jig works.
I've used rolling bevels before, and I have no problem with the strength of the joint. I'm not a big fan of bead and cove myself. Faster... no doubt, and it's great for strip alignment between stations, but I don't think it is any stronger. Besides, they can't meet tightly anywhere that there is a radius in the hull, so in those areas, it may even be a bit weaker IMO. A well done rolling bevel will meet tightly everywhere on the hull.
I used a combo of plexiglass cauls, clamps, and green masking tape (to hold the strips tight until the glue dried) on the copy of Nick Schade's little pack canoe "Nymph" that I built for my wife a couple of years ago. The design called for 1/8" strips, so bead and cove was out of the question. I did all the rolling bevels freehand and it gave me fits. I used a small sliding bevel to transfer the angle at each station and cut those first. Then I just blended them together by eye until they looked like a good fit. Problem is, I have poor close vision, so I taught my wife how to do them and they came out better.
A jig that would allow me to do this easier would be a great help since I don't plan on using strips thicker than 3/16" on any boats I plan on building and, therefore, won't be using bead and cove. Would you mind explaining the process in a bit more detail? How do you establish the exact bevel angle at each station, especially since this varies from strip to strip? That's the part that I don't get.
I already knew what a rolling bevel was, I just don't quite understand how the stepped-rail jig works.
I've used rolling bevels before, and I have no problem with the strength of the joint. I'm not a big fan of bead and cove myself. Faster... no doubt, and it's great for strip alignment between stations, but I don't think it is any stronger. Besides, they can't meet tightly anywhere that there is a radius in the hull, so in those areas, it may even be a bit weaker IMO. A well done rolling bevel will meet tightly everywhere on the hull.
I used a combo of plexiglass cauls, clamps, and green masking tape (to hold the strips tight until the glue dried) on the copy of Nick Schade's little pack canoe "Nymph" that I built for my wife a couple of years ago. The design called for 1/8" strips, so bead and cove was out of the question. I did all the rolling bevels freehand and it gave me fits. I used a small sliding bevel to transfer the angle at each station and cut those first. Then I just blended them together by eye until they looked like a good fit. Problem is, I have poor close vision, so I taught my wife how to do them and they came out better.
A jig that would allow me to do this easier would be a great help since I don't plan on using strips thicker than 3/16" on any boats I plan on building and, therefore, won't be using bead and cove. Would you mind explaining the process in a bit more detail? How do you establish the exact bevel angle at each station, especially since this varies from strip to strip? That's the part that I don't get.
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Battenkiller,.. the jig is not elaborate on purpose. My stepped jig will do nothing more than be a general guide and mostly the heel of my plane will be controlled by my hand or fingers. My method is mostly freehand. I place the "next" strip on the hull as a dry fit and visually eyeball how much of a gap I am dealing with. If there is no gap there is no bevel at that spot in the new strip.
The only thing I mark is along the strip where I think the bevel will start and where it will stop. Do another dry fit and then glue it up if I am satisfied.
Measuring and marking a bevel at every station would definitely drive me nuts. This would take too much of my time and the end result would be about the same as a couple dryfits.
I just watch how my woodgrain is running in the strip so I'm not planing against the grain and it usually works out pretty good. One trick I will use however is chalking the edge of the strip that I am beveling (or use a fat obnoxious pencil). With the 1/4" surface chalked (in your case 3/16" or so) I can tell how far my bevel has gone across the surface of the 1/4" face. If you start planing off the second corner of the 1/4" face you have gone too far.
The only thing I mark is along the strip where I think the bevel will start and where it will stop. Do another dry fit and then glue it up if I am satisfied.
Measuring and marking a bevel at every station would definitely drive me nuts. This would take too much of my time and the end result would be about the same as a couple dryfits.
I just watch how my woodgrain is running in the strip so I'm not planing against the grain and it usually works out pretty good. One trick I will use however is chalking the edge of the strip that I am beveling (or use a fat obnoxious pencil). With the 1/4" surface chalked (in your case 3/16" or so) I can tell how far my bevel has gone across the surface of the 1/4" face. If you start planing off the second corner of the 1/4" face you have gone too far.
Tim Eastman
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Thanks for explaining, Tim.
Yeah, I definitely over thought the whole thing and drove myself nuts. I was using the method I was taught while in a lapstrake canoe class. Lapstrake laps need to be spot on or the planking will have gaps and leak or let debris in between them. But then there are only 7 per side as opposed to about 30 per side on a stripper, so it's not all that bad.
Next one I'll try using your method as it seems a ton easier for the same basic result.
Yeah, I definitely over thought the whole thing and drove myself nuts. I was using the method I was taught while in a lapstrake canoe class. Lapstrake laps need to be spot on or the planking will have gaps and leak or let debris in between them. But then there are only 7 per side as opposed to about 30 per side on a stripper, so it's not all that bad.
Next one I'll try using your method as it seems a ton easier for the same basic result.