Industrial Formulators Epoxy

Colm · Post by **Colm** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:23 am

After much research I've decided to try Industrial Formulators epoxy for my Redbird (i'm probably about 2 weeks away from the fibreglassing stage). Both the manufacturer and the retailer swear that the 3:1 "No Blush" hardener is the identical recipe to West Systems 207 hardener. I'm curious to hear if any one else has used this epoxy and what the results were. I'll let you know how it goes. So far all I've done with it is to glue my stems on.

Daryldog · Post by **Daryldog** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:13 pm

I used that IF product and it was fantastic. Good pot life, very light amber hue, a lot cheaper than West, and absolutely no amine blush.

Erik, Belgium · Post by **Erik, Belgium** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:15 pm

Very well possible, I also used another epoxy brand after I used 105/207 West System on my first canoe. Both were very satisfactory; West System is double the price, so I prefer the second -completely clear- (West system 207 is yellow...) epoxy more.
What I want to say is: West System isn't -although very good- the only good epoxy on the market. Unless you have seen the results of Industrial Formulators on a stripper , I would prefer however to test it on a scap board before glassing the entire hull.
You never know.

Daryldog · Post by **Daryldog** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:37 pm

Colm,
If by chance you live in Vancouver BC you are welcome to check out my finish. If not, I have about 20+ rolls of film of the entire building process and I could find some photos of my finish.
Rob

Colm · Post by **Colm** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:27 pm

Rob,

as a matter of fact I do live in the Vancouver area - Langley as a matter of fact. I'd love to have a look at your canoe. If you want you can email me at colm@teammixing.com. Are you planning on going to the Wooden Boat Festival this weekend?
Colm

Gord · Post by **Gord** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm

I am from Medicine Hat and buy my epoxy from a store in Calgary. I have used Industrial
Formulators epoxy since 1997. I have built six canoes & three Kayaks. Its a great product. I have in the past used the west system but I found the IF product easier to find.
I would have no problem recommending it for canoes.

Colm · Post by **Colm** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:30 am

Gord & Rob,
do you both use the 3:1 no blush hardener for your canoes & kayaks?

Daryldog · Post by **Daryldog** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:26 pm

Can't answer for Gord, but for me the answer is yes. Their cold cure is also a fantastic product if you are working in a cold shop. Not necessary at this time of the year however.

Gord · Post by **Gord** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:32 pm

Colm, I have used both the cold cure and the 3:1, I prefer the 3:1 and have used it for my last 4 boats. The clearity is great.

gc

Colm · Post by **Colm** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:52 am

I appreciate the advice guys. One more question for Gord & Rob: Did you guys precoat the hull first before applying the fibreglass?
Colm

Daryldog · Post by **Daryldog** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:31 am

Nope. But don't forget to wet the hull to raise the grain and sand it off before you lay out your cloth. You are still free to come by and take a look at my boat. Any excuse to show it off.

Gord · Post by **Gord** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:50 am

No I never precoat the hull, I do agree that the hull shuold be dampened to raise the grain before final sanding , but I never precoat the hull with epoxy. Just make sure when the epoxy goes on you do not over squeegee, you don't want to starve the cloth but its important the cloth is not suspended above the wood in a pool of expoxy either.

gc

Todd Bradshaw · Post by **Todd Bradshaw** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:44 pm

Just curious about what you guys think you are gaining by wetting the hull to raise the grain on a surface that's soon going to be covered with fiberglass? If you have sanded the hull fair and removed any sanding marks, then the appearance of the grain-raised version isn't going to be any better or really any different from one where the glass is applied to the wood without raising the grain. The cloth certainly doesn't care how smooth the wood is and epoxy-raised grain from the laminating process likely has more tooth, producing a better bond between the wood and the glass. Raising the grain on a piece of bare wood that's soon going to be varnished is one thing and certainly helps get a better varnish job, but on a hull that's about to recieve a layer or two of fiberglass and a pile of filler coats, it's not doing anything.

Gord · Post by **Gord** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:36 pm

Actually if you dampen or wet the wood prior to final sanding you will find the
grain will actually rise to the touch, you will be able to actually feel it, a quick sanding over this knocks off the high spots giving a smoother more even finish. I do not know if not doing this step has any negative effect but if wetting out the wood with epoxy also raises the grain the your cloth bond may not have as much suface area as epoxy will fill the void caused by the raised grain. I think its important to have the cloth mate with as much wood as possible and raised grain would certianly impair the 6oz cloths ability to bond with the max amount of surface area. Thanks

gc

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:44 pm

When you learn from a master you tend to do as the master does. Ted raises the grain and so do I. His book "Canoecraft" explains the reasons for doing this.