Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

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bert304
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Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by bert304 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:34 pm

ok I am finally getting back to my 15 foot ranger canoe. I built the strong back last August and had to stop because of lack of funds. Just found out I am getting my taxes back on Friday so I am looking at the tools to order and I am stuck on either a low angle block plane or a spokeshave. Here are the two I am looking at

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 89&p=32685

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 30&p=49142
So far Vertias is the only company that makes round handle spokeshaves
I am trying to figure out with I would use more in building my canoe.

Other things I need to get are the following: Thin kerf glue line rip blade an ZCI for it, 1 1/4 chisel ( largest I currently have is a 3/4) the cedarboards them selves.

Is a 3/4 chisel large enough or do you need a 1 inch or 1 1/4 chisel

vann evans
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Post by vann evans » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:15 pm

I think two of the most useful tools that I acquired for my canoe project was a wood rasp and a surfoam plane. I used both of these tools extensively in shaping the stems. I purchased a spokeshave, but really didn't use it so much. I did use a low angle block plane and also a small finger plane for planing the hull at the strip joints to make them fair. I don't think your chisel size is too small-larger is not better. Sometimes, the smaller chisel is easier to control.I would also recommend the thin kerf rip blade-it will save a lot of wood while making the strips. To my knowledge, there are 2 different types of rip blades that work-one is a thin kerf and the other is a glue line. They have different functions-not sure that there is a combination rip blade that is both thin kerf and glue line.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your boat.

Vann Evans

bert304
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Post by bert304 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:20 pm

I found it at Rockler here is the link
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21419

How is the Stanley low angle block plane?

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Denis
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block plane or spokeshave

Post by Denis » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:08 pm

I would buy both perhaps the less expensive models and I would chose a low angle block plane. You could buy stanley models plus a sharpening system for the price of one of the veritas pieces.

I'd love a veritas spokeshave and plane but have done ok with the stanley models. I am thinking of getting the same model of veritas plane. another option is to buy a low end product and purchase the lee valley blades to upgrade it.

Denis

bert304
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Post by bert304 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:11 pm

I would like a really nice low angle plane to use for other projects. I do not mind putting out 140 bucks for it. The problem I have is I also want a dust collector that is 395 and a band saw which is 450 and the hoses and connectors. With everything I am looking at around 1400 to 1600 dollars including the cedar. I have to prioritise with the purchases so not to spend to much. Paying for a family vacation also.

Ben
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Post by Ben » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:19 am

I have found that my Stanley low angle block plane is indespensible...but I spent a lot of time truing up the sole, and I keep the blade sharp enough to shave with using the Scary Sharp sharpening system with Veritas sharpening guides. I inherited my old Stanley 151 spokeshave from my grandfather, and it has been a godsend as well. I found that a standard angle Millers Falls jack plane (available at most garage sales for under $10) was the ticket for fairing the outside of my hull. The low angle plane was giving me tearout, but the jack plane wasn't, and I had more control when I could use both hands. The shurform stuff has worked OK in some instances, but spend your time and money in the sharpening. A super sharp $20 Stanley plane will outperform a dull $150 veritas or $250 lee valley plane any day of the week. As far as shaping the stems, a spokeshave and a high quality piece of 80 grit sandpaper glued to a batten work great! :twisted evil

Also, don't discount the $4 properly sharpened scraper for scraping out the inside. Profile it to a curve, sharpen it with a file, 220, and 400 grit sand paper, then fold over the point of the blade toward the handle with the back side of a chisel. It works like a cabinet scraper on steroids! Trust me, you will get shavings like they came off a plane!

podunk
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Post by podunk » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:55 pm

I bought both a straight spokeshave and a radius spokeshave, didn't use either one much. Did most with a small block plane from Sears. I would spend my money on cabinet scrapers. I rough shaped my stems with a die grinder and a sanding attachment with the psi turned down and finished with a fairing board. worked for me but I am far from a expert. Good Luck.

Redleg
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Post by Redleg » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:31 am

I've got both the Veritas low angle block plane and their small apron plane. In my opinion the apron plane is the cat's meow for canoe building.

It's a lot lighter than the regular low angle block plane. The extra heft of the bigger plane is great for trimming end grain in hardwoods like a mitered oak or maple door casing, but most of your planing will be face grain/edge grain in softer woods. The bigger plane can get fatiguing.

The downside is no mouth adjustment, but paying attention to grain direction and planing with the grain solves that. Blade quality, machining & blade adjustment are top notch.

Price is a lot better, $81 vs. $139. Spend the extra money on sharpening supplies.

An older stanley block plane is also a good option but expect to spend some time tuning it up. These often saw a lot of abuse, inspect carefully for cracked bodies, mouth mechanism rusted solid, and pitting on the flat side of the blade.

Here's the one, pic from Lee Valley's site:

Image

As far as spokeshaves go, they can be handy but I don't think you need them. Your block plane will do most of what a spokeshave can do & if it can't you can always buy one later. I'd spend my money on some decent rasps before a spokeshave. Do a google search for microplane.

Steve

UniCacher
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Re: Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by UniCacher » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:03 am

Also, don't discount the $4 properly sharpened scraper for scraping out the inside. Profile it to a curve, sharpen it with a file, 220, and 400 grit sand paper, then fold over the point of the blade toward the handle with the back side of a chisel. It works like a cabinet scraper on steroids! Trust me, you will get shavings like they came off a plane!
Ben

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Okay, I'm stuck working the inside of the kayak. I had relatively little problem working the outside with a block plane and fairing board, but this concave bit is giving me fits. I've tried many different angles on my paint scraper and have just about used up the last bit of available metal on it. Problem is, I can't get beautiful shavings like all of my other tools. Can somebody show me a picture of how to sharpen this bugger so it'll cut the way I want it to? I really don't want to resort to 'glassing an unfinished hull interior!

wb9tpg
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Re: Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by wb9tpg » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:08 am

This site gives an excellent tutorial in sharpening cabinet scrapers. Notice that the shavings produced are smaller than a hand plane and that matches my experience.

I'm not sure this will help you or not.

PaleMorningDun
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Re: Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by PaleMorningDun » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:47 am

I use a Stanley low-angle block plane and find it very useful. I also bought a diamond plate and 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit stones to sharpen edge tools in the shop (I don't use a power grinder). I touched up the base of the plane and tuned the iron. The lip that the iron sits on might need a bit of work with a file to tune it as well.

Lie Nielsen make a bronze block plane that is the perfect size for delicate work and fits in an apron or pocket. Nick from Guillemot boats uses one, but they are pricey. You should be fine with a Stanely plane and a Surform.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1221

Snowman
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Re: Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by Snowman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:54 pm

UniCacher,

I am not an expert, but I had very good results on the hull interior with a straight and slightly arced cabinet scraper. Sharpen them up like the site referenced by wb9tpg and you will be good to go!


Snowman
Snowman back East

BearLeeAlive
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Re: Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by BearLeeAlive » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:50 am

The cabinet scraper advise in the previous posts is all great, pretty much what I do.They are great for smoothing on hardwood, and cut fairly fast on softwoods. Very little sanding is needed afterwards. Another place that scrapers shine is when you have to smooth of a surface of multiple woods of differing density, it takes the surface down evenly where sanding will remove the softer material quicker.

As far as spokeshave vs. plane, I find both or very useful. I find the spokeshaves can do curves much better and are much better to visually see what you are cutting. For me, a plane makes a much smoother surface, and the low-angle plane has less tear out on gnarly spots. My first purchase would be a plane though, as files can handle those sharp curves, though in my opinion do not have near the control and need much more time spent sanding out smooth.
-JIM-

AlanWS
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Re: Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by AlanWS » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:45 pm

I also would start with the plane, and don't think it needs to be low angle.

A spokeshave is useful for paddles, but does not seem to me to be needed for the curves of a canoe hull.

A card scraper is also a wonderfully simple and useful tool: get one. I have found that some cedar boards scrape beautifully, while other boards don't. All of it planes well.
Alan

fonz
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Re: Low angle block plane or Spokeshave

Post by fonz » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:44 pm

I am not an expert but I am on my 10th canoe. I have both the Vertias low angler block plane and flat spoke shaver . I understand that money is an issue and something we should always consider. I thing every one in this forum will agree that the satisfaction you will get with using a sharp hand tool of quality will make the process very rewarding. Buy the the best you can and keep them sharp. The smell and the feel of the spoke shaver and hand plane is what it is all about. Some people will say it is not the arrow but it is the Indian . In this case it is the arrow . You are the Indian

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