My first post and hopefully the start of a journey resulting in my very own woodstrip.
Be prepared for some odd questions like this one.
I am currently sourcing timber for the strips. Our wood yard has good long lenghts of knot free white pine. I cannot however find a reference to the species.
How important is the choice of pine.
I have access to good quality douglas fir. Is this an option for strips.
Thank you in advance
SD in France.
Newbie
Welcome to the forum.There are different species of pine found aound the world. What I call white pine here in Ontario is Eastern White Pine ( Pinus Strobis). I have used it now for building 2 canoes and 2 kayaks. It is very similar to western red cedar in weight and strength , just a bit more weight. I am developing a sensitivity to cedar so I needed a different wood. I like to use the red cedar for accents , that way my exposure to it is limited. Beware of southern and tropical pines being sold as white pine as they are usually heavier and brittle.
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Glen Smith
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
Hi Sue, I do not know where you are located in France but this company: http://www.generale-des-bois.com/ , located in Bordeaux, carries Red Cedar and many other species of lumber.
wood
That wood yard is about three hours away.
Looks good. I will try and find one a bit nearer though.
I will use red cedar for the first boat. I am still interested in the possibility of using douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii).
Your thoughts please.
ps sue denim is not my real name !!!!
I do have a knowledge of wood working. I hope the admin don't mind but here is a link to my website. I doubt I will get any business through this forum !!.
www.sunmancarpentry.com
Looks good. I will try and find one a bit nearer though.
I will use red cedar for the first boat. I am still interested in the possibility of using douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii).
Your thoughts please.
ps sue denim is not my real name !!!!
I do have a knowledge of wood working. I hope the admin don't mind but here is a link to my website. I doubt I will get any business through this forum !!.
www.sunmancarpentry.com
You can use really any species to build a strip canoe or kayak. I have built them out of white pine, basswood, western red cedar. I really like basswood and pine as they are cheap, easy to find, mill very nice and add just a bit of extra weight but not much. However, I have found with basswood and pine that they actually work better with slightly thinner strips than 1/4". My standard thickness if 7/32" on strips and this offsets most of the weight difference as this reduces the weight of wood by 12% over 1/4" strips. Final weight is only an issue if you portage a lot. If you plan on always using the canoe with two people, and only from the car to the water, then weight should not be a big deal. If you are a solo tripper with 1 mile portages, then weight is everything.
Good luck.
Good luck.
For me, sanding the hull, especially the interior, took a lot of time, and I was glad I used the softest and lightest wood available here (eastern white cedar). My scraper skills aren't great and I could have possibly saved some time with a good scraper applied properly.
If I build with a harder wood next time, I'll probably cut the strips narrower, to cut down on sanding time.
Another thing is the thinness and rigidity of the hull... I used 1/4" thick strips and sanded off the minimum needed for smoothness. With that thickness in the glass-cedar-glass sandwich, the hull is absolutely rigid with no oilcanning at all (hull flex in the bottom when shifting weight up and down). Oilcanning can cause performance to suffer if it is great enough... I really don't know whether 3/16 strips or thinner sanded down to smoothness would have resulted in any oilcanning.
At some point with thinning strips, the hull will become thin enough to flex and oilcan... soft and light 1/4 cedar strips should provide enough margin in thickness to ensure that never occurs, but there have probably been plenty of canoes built with 3/16 strips that don't oilcan either.
If I build with a harder wood next time, I'll probably cut the strips narrower, to cut down on sanding time.
Another thing is the thinness and rigidity of the hull... I used 1/4" thick strips and sanded off the minimum needed for smoothness. With that thickness in the glass-cedar-glass sandwich, the hull is absolutely rigid with no oilcanning at all (hull flex in the bottom when shifting weight up and down). Oilcanning can cause performance to suffer if it is great enough... I really don't know whether 3/16 strips or thinner sanded down to smoothness would have resulted in any oilcanning.
At some point with thinning strips, the hull will become thin enough to flex and oilcan... soft and light 1/4 cedar strips should provide enough margin in thickness to ensure that never occurs, but there have probably been plenty of canoes built with 3/16 strips that don't oilcan either.
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Glen Smith
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
"oil canning" is when the hull bottom flexes with passing waves or under foot pressure. This can happen in canoes that are wide and have a very flat bottom. It can also happen to other designs if the composition is not stiff enough. In a wood/epoxy canoe, this flexing can lead to breakage, usually along the keel line.
oil canning
Oh of course !
Thank you, another step on the steep learning curve.
Thank you, another step on the steep learning curve.
Re: Newbie
Ok things are moving on. I have a workshop 110 m² with a level concrete floor.
I have also acquired eight lengths of Epicea commun which are 5.6m long 80 x 200 mm in section. These have been barn stored for eleven years. They are from a tree that was over eighty years old, but got uprooted in the storms.
another quick question.
The glue for the strips is mentioned in a book as being "yellow carpenters glue".
Could you enlighten me as to what this is exactly....pva ?.
Most glues have a chemical name and that is what I am after.
Thank you in advance.
I have also acquired eight lengths of Epicea commun which are 5.6m long 80 x 200 mm in section. These have been barn stored for eleven years. They are from a tree that was over eighty years old, but got uprooted in the storms.
another quick question.
The glue for the strips is mentioned in a book as being "yellow carpenters glue".
Could you enlighten me as to what this is exactly....pva ?.
Most glues have a chemical name and that is what I am after.
Thank you in advance.
Re: Newbie
Yellow carpenters glue is aliphatic resin, not PVA.
Re: Newbie
from Titebond website
It's the most common around my area.In 1955, Franklin again set the standard with the development of the first aliphatic resin glue, Titebond Original Wood Glue. Titebond II Premium Wood Glue (1991) was the first one-part Type II water-resistant glue. Franklin International is proud to continue our tradition of excellence with the introduction of our first truly waterproof wood glue - Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue.
Re: Newbie
Thanks for the heads-up on the glue thing....
just to be clearer still, out of the three different types of titebond available which is most suited to the planking stage ? ...does it matter?
Thank you again to all those who know a great deal more than I do.
just to be clearer still, out of the three different types of titebond available which is most suited to the planking stage ? ...does it matter?
Thank you again to all those who know a great deal more than I do.
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Jeff in Farmington, MI
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:19 pm
- Location: Farmington, Michigan, USA
Re: Newbie
Hello "Sue",
Concerning the glue, the water resistant properties of the glue are not important because the entire boat will be enclosed within the epoxy-fiberglass covering. The strip joints will never see water.
As a woodworker, you normally want a glue which sets up quickly. However, when building strip boats, most people appreciate the slower setting glues which allow for more time to position the strips before clamping or stapling. I use an inexpensive slow-setting carpenters glue which usually takes up to 30 minutes before getting tacky. Since I use the more time-consuming stapleless methods, I need to work very fast to get each strip in place. If the tacky glue bond prevents the strip from seating into the bead-cove joint, a crack will reveal itself after the hull has been sanded.
Also, when seating each freshly glued strip into the bead-cove joint, rock the strip to make sure that it is fully seated all along its length. Excess glue, or glue which is become tacky, will prevent the strip from seating and result in either cracks or glue-filled joints which are not as attractive.
Good luck with your project!
Jeff
Concerning the glue, the water resistant properties of the glue are not important because the entire boat will be enclosed within the epoxy-fiberglass covering. The strip joints will never see water.
As a woodworker, you normally want a glue which sets up quickly. However, when building strip boats, most people appreciate the slower setting glues which allow for more time to position the strips before clamping or stapling. I use an inexpensive slow-setting carpenters glue which usually takes up to 30 minutes before getting tacky. Since I use the more time-consuming stapleless methods, I need to work very fast to get each strip in place. If the tacky glue bond prevents the strip from seating into the bead-cove joint, a crack will reveal itself after the hull has been sanded.
Also, when seating each freshly glued strip into the bead-cove joint, rock the strip to make sure that it is fully seated all along its length. Excess glue, or glue which is become tacky, will prevent the strip from seating and result in either cracks or glue-filled joints which are not as attractive.
Good luck with your project!
Jeff