Redwood gunwales

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pumpkin
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: North Dakota

Redwood gunwales

Post by pumpkin »

I live in kind of a hardwood starved area. I have searched the stacks of hardwood at the local lumberyards and even the local cabinet shops (within 50 miles) and can’t find any decent hardwood for gunwales. The cabinet shop has the best supply but they buy for character not for straight grain. The lumberyard has 4 boards from 4 to 7 feet. What I have seen has grain running in and out wildly over the length it would be tough to even scarf pieces together to get the length I need without having 3 to 6 joints in a gunwale.

I have some redwood leftover that I could use without any joints. Is it tough enough if coated with epoxy to use? If so what dimensions would be good? Should I increase to like 7/8”? It's going on an 18 foot canoe.

Matthew
David James
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 9:04 pm
Location: Glenview, Illinois

Post by David James »

Matthew,

I'm currently working with redwood (just glued another strip on) and, thought I love it for planks, I think it would be too soft for gunwales. Sure, a thicker piece of redwood would be stronger than a thinner one, but it's still redwood... soft, and prone to denting. So, it's either scarf joints or a hunt for more suitable hardwood.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Good luck.

Dave

P.S. - maybe you could reinforce redwood gunwales with a layer of 'glass?? :thinking
"If given six hours to chop down a tree, spend the first four sharpening your ax." - Abraham Lincoln
Rick
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 9:23 am
Location: Bancroft, Ontario

Post by Rick »

In the old days (pre-1950) outwales used to be made from white spruce, with hardwood being a more expensive option. Inwales could also be made from this... I used white pine for inwales, softer than WS and after several years everything is holding up AOK.

With hardwoods unavailable, maybe WS could be available... it's often the wood in 2x6s, 2x8s etc, in lumber yards. WS scarfs should be near invisible, if straight epoxy is used... precoat the joint to soak, let the epoxy thicken a little by curing slightly before adding more to the joint before clamping.

Sitka spruce, another softwood, has also been used for gunnels, it isn't available here.

WS outwales won't be as durable as ash, cherry etc, so maybe they could be fastened with screws for easy replacement if some splintering happens.

Another alternative could be to order the outwales and inwales from a shop like Noah's... I have no idea what the shipping costs could be.... good luck.
Tom in MN
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:42 am
Location: Eagan, MN

Post by Tom in MN »

I would give it a try. Perhaps increase the size a bit to give a little more strength. 7/8" x 7/8" on the outwales and 1/2" x 7/8" on the inwales. You just have to be prepared that they will get beat up over time but so what. I would definately use fasterners to hold them on and thus makes for easy replacement. for me, most of my canoe use is flat water lake and river paddling. The canoes take a lot more abuse coming on and off the vehicle than they do on the water. If you plan on running whitewater in this canoe and expect that you might hit a rock, going really vast, sideways, then you might want to spring for hardwood gunnels. You could also consider an extra thwart or two to give a little more stiffness across the canoe to account for the loss in strength of the hardwood.
pumpkin
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: North Dakota

Post by pumpkin »

I was digging through the piles again today and walked away in disgust. I have one more place to try this weekend and then I think I am going to use the redwood with the intent of replacing them when the opportunity arises. Even the spruce/pine/fir is pretty rough here. Everyone I ask about good wood claims that they have the same problem. It seems that even with the building boom here that crap is the expectation. It’s depressing. Even the cabinet shop said that they have no call for quality, everyone wants MDF.

There is some red oak around but it would need to be scarfed and I have read that it is not the best. If I could find some white oak I would use it. If I have to use a second rate wood I might as well use what I have.

When I think about using redwood I am reminded of a set of kitchen cabinets that we had custom made out of WRC in the late seventies. Everyone said that the WRC was too soft to use and they wouldn’t stand up to the abuse of time. The polyurethane made them very hard and after 15 years of constant use/abuse they still looked like the day they were installed. I think with a good soaking of epoxy the redwood might take some abuse. I will make some transport blocks out of some plastic foam we get at work. It is pretty cool stuff.

Matthew
AlanWS
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:30 pm
Location: Shorewood, WI

Post by AlanWS »

Redwood can splinter if it's damaged, so it's not just the softness. If they wear, watch out for painful splinters. But if you can get ash or something to add a 1/8" thick outside face to the gunwales they would become more durable. I would give the redwood a try, and later perhaps add a thin layer of hardwood rather than replacing them.
Alan
Rick
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 9:23 am
Location: Bancroft, Ontario

Post by Rick »

Another option could be to buy hardwood moldings at a place like Home Depot and then rip them down to form gunwales. Could be pricey, relative to fiberglassed redwood.

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Tom in MN
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:42 am
Location: Eagan, MN

Post by Tom in MN »

Where in ND are you? Renneberg Hardwoods in Menaga MN has anything you need. It is just East of Fargo about 1.5 hrs drive. They also deliver or can ship UPS.
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One Norse
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:51 am
Location: SE Minnesota

Post by One Norse »

There is also a hardwood store on Hwy 10 in Dilworth, MN, about 5 miles east of the border in the Fargo/Moorhead area.:

Valley Hardwood Supply‎
900 Center Avenue West, Dilworth, MN‎ - (218) 233-8020‎
pumpkin
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: North Dakota

Post by pumpkin »

I appreciate the replies. I have looked at hardwood moldings but not at Home Depot. That’s an expensive option and means gluing smaller pieces together. The closest HD is a couple of hundred miles away in Fargo. There is a Lowes and a hardwood specialty store in Bismarck but that is also 150 each way. Next time I am in one of the larger centers I will check it out but until then I am not going to let the lack of hardwood stop me. My wife agreed to put on redwood and swap for hardwood when we find some. It only cost $12. for a 20 foot board so the loss is not great.

We are about 600 miles from the Twin Cities. I am thinking about asking one of our regular transport drivers if they could sneak a couple of sticks into a load. We get 2 or 3 transports a day from the Twin Cities. Something might be possible. They are a touchy bunch tough.

Tom, you asked where we live. About one half mile from the end of the earth sign. I can see the edge out my picture window. Actually we live in a very small town about 55 miles from Minot.

Matthew
Tom in MN
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:42 am
Location: Eagan, MN

Post by Tom in MN »

That is pretty close to the end of the earth. Actually, I love the vastness of ND. Never tried to live there but have travelled throughout the state. Where do you intend to paddle in that part of the world. Very few rivers, but lots of sloughs that I recall.
pumpkin
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: North Dakota

Post by pumpkin »

There are a couple of rivers within an hour. The Missouri is about 2 hours. There are lots of wildlife preserves and small lakes. The trick is to find something protected from the wind.

What we like is that a canoe is portable. For us our old canoe was always an excuse to travel and see the back roads. We are planning on making shorter trips into the Black Hills, Western Montana, Colorado, Washington state, really any place there something interesting. We travelled when we had our old canoe, it went about 40K miles with us. We dumped it into lakes and rivers all over western Canada from lakes in Nanaimo, Wells Grey Provincial Park, Banff National Park, lakes and rivers in south eastern British Columbia around Fernie, through the Crows Nest Pass and all over the foothills of the Rocky Mountains. It was endless. This canoe will see a similar fate. Many miles on a trailer just for the opportunity to say “Yeah, we were there and dipped a paddle.”

There are also a couple of trips on my bucket list. Up the Pitt River in British Columbia and a summer on the Yukon River. I would like to do some inside passage cruising but I think that will have to be in a sail boat. Ambitious? Yes, no, maybe. But if you stop moving and dreaming you die.

Matthew
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