Had a Bad Day

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Arctic
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Had a Bad Day

Post by Arctic »

Have you guys ever had a day where things just go wrong. Like you end up with a pile of fibreglass and epoxy crumpled up on the shop floor. Where you were glassing the inside and the cloth moved around so much, and it got worse and worse as you worked it, that things were just not going well. Ever had that kind of day building these boats?

Well I just did. There must be others out there who have had these kinds of days. Join me, cheer me up, tell me your story, rant on about it. Please tell me I not the only one .

Oh yeah, anybody know where I can get some fibreglass cloth near London Ontario?

Mark
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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doe4rae
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That IS bad...

Post by doe4rae »

:sad

I am not sure I can cheer you up but maybe it will make you feel better to hear about something stupid that I did. I had put on one layer of fiberglass and wanted to add a second "football" shape to the bottom for added strength. I asked my son to help me hold the cloth while I cut out this shape. It was really late at night and my brain must have just shut off the second I picked up the scissors. The way I had the cloth folded cut out TWO shapes ... nothing like footballs, which completely ruined that entire piece of cloth for that project. I never admitted that to anyone until now because I felt so stupid when I looked at it. Admittedly, there was much less time and work invested (such as you have) that was lost ... but the cost of the fabric was not negligable. Even with this (and other mistakes I made) I always tried to console myself with the thought that at the VERY LEAST I had gained experience! Right?
Still groaning inside at the thought of what you must be feeling right now.
Dawne Olson

"The human soul needs actual beauty more than bread" ~DH Lawrence
vann evans
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Post by vann evans »

Now you are an expert--I've always said that an expert who is someone that's already made that mistake-and learned from it. congratulations on joining the rest of us as experts!! We've all made mistakes-some show, some cost money-all cost time, effort and brain drain. learn from your mistakes and help someone else avoid the same.
Good luck on the rest of your boat.
Vann Evans
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Who needs glass on the inside anyway. Well a portion covering the "football" is glassed with 8 oz cloth- the rest is just epoxy- she is pretty solid- best of all I didn't have to go through the big "inside job" now.

:shocked Yeah I know some out there are wondering what the hell I am thinking, not following the "rules" and all, but rest assured she is solid. Sea trials soon.

Here are a couple of photos, and please guys comment, after all this is a discussion forum- lets get discussing boats. I want to know how others find the epoxy strip method, its pros and cons. I am seriously considering going to a rib and canvas method from now on.
1. I find the epoxy/fibreglass method too frought with problems when it comes to certain parts of the glassing method- but I do like the end results
2. I think the epoxy is starting to bother me, that is I react more to it physically now than I have in the past. This will mark my 3rd boat using the epoxy/fibreglass technique.

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/ ... as%20Boot/
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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doe4rae
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Canoe looks great!

Post by doe4rae »

Thanks for posting the pictures... the canoe looks really nice! Congratulations! I don't have a lot of experience but I have heard of others not glassing the inside at all. As for your interest in the rib and canvas method...I think it is appealing also. I suppose every method has its pros and cons. Would love to hear more on that myself. I recently watched "Waterwalker" featuring artist/naturalist/canoist Bill Mason.... (its free to view online as well at NFB.ca) His canoe seems like some combination of ribs and cedar strip (painted red) but maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it is canvas... anyway.... I really like the look of the ribs and it just seems like a more solid way of building. I would guess it takes some skill steaming/bending the ribs and probably results in a heavier boat. By how much I don't know.
Congrats again on your boat. I hope you will post a couple pictures of her maiden voyage!
Dawne Olson

"The human soul needs actual beauty more than bread" ~DH Lawrence
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Patricks Dad
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Post by Patricks Dad »

I added ribs to the last boat I built. It should have weighed less than 55 pounds but came in at 65 (at least 10 pounds heavier). But I just love the look of those ribs so I don't think about the weight... It also took an extra 3 months to steam and bend all the ribs, insert them one at a time and epoxy them in place.... next boat won't have them...but I'm glad I did it once.
Randy Pfeifer
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Markham_David
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Post by Markham_David »

I also have a bit of a love/hate relationship with the epoxy strip method. The problem, of course, is the irrevocable nature of the epoxy: no second chance. Using a very slow setting product has eased my apprehension a lot, but I still check and double check everything before I start. I'm also lucky that my wife is quite willing to help. She mixes, I apply, then we both scrape off the excess.

Of course, the irrevocable nature of the epoxy also has a bright side. It is strong and requires far less maintenance than a wooden craft would require. It doesn't absorb water. It is also beautiful, as is a traditional wooden canoe. As well, epoxy canoes can also be much lighter that their wooden cousins.

Environmentally, I think epoxy is problematic. I've only built one canoe so far, but I cringe a bit to think of the amount of scrap cloth, brushes, rollers and hardened epoxy I sent to the landfill. Also, I'm not, come to think of it, aware of the processes used to create epoxy resins, and how "clean" it is.

The other problem is health. Epoxy and human biology do not mix, and while wood can cause problems with sensitivity, depending on the species (my Dad had to give up wood carving due to this), it doesn't seem as serious a problem as with epoxy sensitization.

If you do decide to abandon epoxy, you could consider an all-wood canoe as well as cedar-canvas. The canoe looks like a cedar-canvas one on the inside, with the same wide ribs, but the exterior looks like the early cedarstrips made by Peterborough. Check out Windy Ridge Canoes in Haliburton, ON for some pictures of canoes made in this fashion:

http://www.sandycline.com/windyridge/

Good luck!

David
David James
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Post by David James »

"I'm OK with the epoxy - it's the cedar that I react to now. My nose gets REAL inflamed after cutting or sanding just a little bit of it. That's why I'm currently building with redwood.

My next boat will be of lapstrake (clinker) construction like Rushton used to build 'em. Talk about traditional methods! Beautiful boats.

Dave
"If given six hours to chop down a tree, spend the first four sharpening your ax." - Abraham Lincoln
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Thanks for the comments and opinions. All are appreciated. While the glass job did not go as well as planned (on the inside) I have managed to finish the boat. She is strong and looks alright- however I know where every flaw is. I suppose nothing can ever be "perfect".

Weather permitting I will take her on the water tomorrow and see how it all goes.
For the record it is a Bear Mountain 16' Canadien.
Here are some photos.

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/ ... as%20Boot/

Mark
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
David James
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 9:04 pm
Location: Glenview, Illinois

Post by David James »

Mark, that's a good looking canoe! You will get lots of compliments on it and will soon forget the trouble you had with it. Nice job, I'd say. Enjoy it!

Dave
"If given six hours to chop down a tree, spend the first four sharpening your ax." - Abraham Lincoln
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