Next Project

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sedges
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Re: Next Project

Post by sedges »

I think that the canoe originally maybe have had only a thick coating of resin on the outside and would have been much lighter. That finer fiberglass cloth on the outside may have been added to make the hull more resistance to abrasion. Also it is possible that the dark patches on the inside had something to do with a keel being attached on the outside. Any evidence of screw holes that have been filled?

These veneer based canoes are of great interest to me. It was a good innovation that never really caught on. I think it might have been a misunderstanding of the construction by the customers, thinking that canoes needed ribs to be stout and these were fragile craft. They really are the predecessors of the ribless strip construction we all enjoy so much.
alick burt
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Re: Next Project

Post by alick burt »

Hi Randy
Looks like an interesting project and a clever construction is it just one layer of veneer or are there two layers with an overlap at the joins of the verticals?
Cheers :thinking
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

Just one layer of veneer. Sedges, I don't think the outside glass was added later. I'm guessing it's original.
Also, no signs of a keel having been on the craft (no holes anywhere).
I just finished sanding the outside of the hull. I went through ~80 5" disks on my ROS. There was something on the surface that kept gumming my sandpaper. No sign of varnish on the outside and the resin was really rough (like it was never sanded after it was first applied).

Here's a pic of the hull after sanding just over 1/2 of it:

Image
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

I still can't figure out what those marks down the center of the canoe are caused from. They go all the way through the wood and are visible on both sides. Here's a couple close ups. There is a series of these down the center of the hull and all are almost identical.

outside:
Image

Inside (not necessarily the same pair of marks - but they all look very similar):
Image

While I'm posting pics, here's one with a new coat of epoxy on the gunwales:
Image

Hope to get the inside scrubbed with soap (recommendations?) and water as well as a first coat of varnish on the outside tomorrow.
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Jim Dodd
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Re: Next Project

Post by Jim Dodd »

Love the project !

My first canoe was a polyester resin build. At that time there was an additive that was supposed to make the resin bond better to wood. Can't remember what it was. Seems like you used a 1 part additive to 9 parts resin.
I'm guessing the waxy stuff was from the resin.

As far as cleaning, I wonder if soap would leave any residue ? I'd maybe go for vinegar, ammonia or maybe acetone. Just a thought !!!!

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
Rabbit
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Re: Next Project

Post by Rabbit »

hmm, maybe i'm imaging things, but to me it looks like the hull veneer is made from a single plank of timber. any blemish that went through the plank would be in all the strips of veneer crated from that plank. :thinking

a good scrub with warm soapy water should be fine, so long as it's rinsed off. i'd stay well away from strong organic solvents. you should still probably finish with warm soapy water and clean water, but prior to that you might want to give it a wipe down first with wax and grease remover used to prep automotive substrates prior to spraying.
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Jim Dodd
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Re: Next Project

Post by Jim Dodd »

Those dark spots seem to have a pattern. I'm curious as to their origin!
Interesting !

Jim
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

Gave it a scrub with a bristle brush and some "Scrubbing Bubbles" spray, followed by soap and water followed by just warm water.

Image

It's improved quite a bit but not perfect.

I did measure the beam on the boat. Its 32" (my previous guess).

Those marks down the middle may be simply a blemish in the wood when the veneer was cut. Successive slices would produce similar marks as each layer was cut. The builder may have purposely arranged the strips on the canoe to place the marks in the middle. I'll have to look at them more carefully. If my theory is right, I should be able to determine the order the strips were cut and see if the grain or other blemishes line up with one another....
Last edited by Patricks Dad on Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

Here's a pic after the first coat of varnish.

Image
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Jim Dodd
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Re: Next Project

Post by Jim Dodd »

Nice Job Randy !!!
I'll be bringing my canoes to you to finish from now on !!!

I found a thread on the forums of <wcha.org> Under the stripper section, that should give some insight as to how your canoe was built.
I wish I knew how to short cut it for you, but it's there.

Jim
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

got the hull sanded and a 2nd coat of varnish on today. After the first coat went on, I noticed several fish-eyes near the shear. I'm thinking there is some contamination on the hull (perhaps blush from when it was originally glassed (I don't see any signs that it was ever varnished). I scrubbed those sections down with vinegar and then water and then sanded the whole hull with 220 grit paper. Next I went over the hull with a scotch scrubbing pad with particular attention to the areas that had fish-eyes. I then swabbed the whole hull with thinner (same thinner I used to thin the varnish). I put the 2nd coat of varnish on and can still see hints of of fish-eyes in some places. I'll see how bad it is once it dries a bit more. Thoughts or ideas to address the problem?


Thanks


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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

After extending the forms, I was able to raise the canoe 12" higher allowing me to varnish the hull, gunwales and decks in one go. Here's a pic after 5 coats of Epifanes on the hull and 3 on the gunwales.

Image

A couple more coats of varnish on the gunwales and decks it's she'll be ready for the water.
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

Upon further reveiw, I think Rabbit is correct with his hypothesis that the marks down the keelline of this canoe are from a "blemish" in the original plank which was cut into many thin veneer sheets. I spent some time looking carefully at the patterns in the wood and the surrounding grain of each strip. I could number the strips based on the minor shifts in the pattern from one strip to the next. I could tell where strips were flipped or rotated relative to each other based on grain structures around those blemishes. The builder must have simply put the marks down the middle rather than have them randomly distrub his design. Wish I could have met him.
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

Finished varnishing the gunwales, decks and thwarts today. I'll let it cure for a couple weeks and it will be ready for delivery to the owner just before Christmas.

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Patricks Dad
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Re: Next Project

Post by Patricks Dad »

Here's a final picture just before delivery.

Image
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