Cove up or bead up?
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Cove up or bead up?
I have pretty much settled on building a Freedom 17. I'm looking ahead to the planking without staples and wondering if I should build with planks cove up or bead up. It seems cove up gives better glue control, but it's harder to tape or press the planks down without damaging the coves. With bead up gluing could be an issue, but much easier to press the planks down. I welcome comments.
Thanks,
Bob
Thanks,
Bob
- Patricks Dad
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Re: Cove up or bead up?
I always build cove up. Place a short (~2") piece of 1/4" dowel in the cove to protect it when you clamp/tape.
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Re: Cove up or bead up?
It's cove down/bead up for me. I set the new strip in a holder along the top of the forms to apply the glue; remember you just want a tiny bead in the cove, so it stays in place when you turn the strip over and fasten it to the forms. I use fishing line to attach the strips, so having the bead up is critical.
Rgds
Rick
Rgds
Rick
oysterbayboats.ca
Re: Cove up or bead up?
Hi Rick
I was wondering what weight and type of line you use ?
Does it leave any mark at all ?
And does it act as a spacer preventing full contact between the strips at the glue joint ?
I've heard of others doing it this way, and I'm intrigued !
Thanks for any light you can shed on this !!
Jim
I was wondering what weight and type of line you use ?
Does it leave any mark at all ?
And does it act as a spacer preventing full contact between the strips at the glue joint ?
I've heard of others doing it this way, and I'm intrigued !
Thanks for any light you can shed on this !!
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
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Re: Cove up or bead up?
Hi Jim
I use 25 or 30lb monofilament. It has a nice stretch, and leaves almost no marks. If you dampened the hull between sandings, I suspect they might be gone altogether. They are not obvious but since I know here to look, I can usually find some of them. I can't imagine that they space the strips apart, the line tends to dig into the strip a bit, and subsequent strips and fishing line tightens up the whole stack.In fact, if you work too fast, and don't pass the line around some screws in the face of the forms, the layers nearest the shear can start to buckle from the pressure. I've built about 20 boats with this method now, and wouldn't do it any other way.
Rgds
Rick
oysterbayboats.ca
I use 25 or 30lb monofilament. It has a nice stretch, and leaves almost no marks. If you dampened the hull between sandings, I suspect they might be gone altogether. They are not obvious but since I know here to look, I can usually find some of them. I can't imagine that they space the strips apart, the line tends to dig into the strip a bit, and subsequent strips and fishing line tightens up the whole stack.In fact, if you work too fast, and don't pass the line around some screws in the face of the forms, the layers nearest the shear can start to buckle from the pressure. I've built about 20 boats with this method now, and wouldn't do it any other way.
Rgds
Rick
oysterbayboats.ca
oysterbayboats.ca
Re: Cove up or bead up?
I like cove up, as it allows a bit more control of the glue and not moving the piece that has the glue on it, seems a better idea.
As far as protecting the cove, Randy's suggestion to use pieces of 1/4" dowel works well, I used that on my first boat. I modified that idea on the second boat and just used full 4' pieces and covered the entire length. I found that even easier, it makes it pretty hard to damage the cove and you can clamp it anywhere.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=637&start=75
This link is to a post in the forum, if you go down near the end to the Kipawa build (last page), you can see a pretty straight forward way to use the dowels to protect the cove, and then use 3/16" bungee cord as a clamp. I initially started using the palletizing tape, but swapped halfway through when I decided the cord would be easier. The bungee cord works really well and I will use this technique moving forward, but I will likely swap to latex tubing for the next one.
Using tie down straps at each mold pretty much eliminates any issues with holding shape. You can get 2-3 strips at a time until you get to the turn at the bilge.
Brian (Cruiser)
As far as protecting the cove, Randy's suggestion to use pieces of 1/4" dowel works well, I used that on my first boat. I modified that idea on the second boat and just used full 4' pieces and covered the entire length. I found that even easier, it makes it pretty hard to damage the cove and you can clamp it anywhere.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=637&start=75
This link is to a post in the forum, if you go down near the end to the Kipawa build (last page), you can see a pretty straight forward way to use the dowels to protect the cove, and then use 3/16" bungee cord as a clamp. I initially started using the palletizing tape, but swapped halfway through when I decided the cord would be easier. The bungee cord works really well and I will use this technique moving forward, but I will likely swap to latex tubing for the next one.
Using tie down straps at each mold pretty much eliminates any issues with holding shape. You can get 2-3 strips at a time until you get to the turn at the bilge.
Brian (Cruiser)
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Re: Cove up or bead up?
Hi Brian
The advantage of fishing line is that you don't have to stop every three or four strips. You could potentially strip the whole boat in a day. The fishing line stays in until the whole boat is stripped, and then is pulled just prior to sanding. If your glue moves when you lift and turn over the strip, you likely have too much. I use a bead about the size of a pencil lead and still get squeeze-out when I clamp the strip. I also like that i can pull down on the top of the strip, and give it a bit of a wiggle as I fasten it down, to make sure that the cove is seated, without having to handle a fragile cove edge.
Best rgds
Rick
The advantage of fishing line is that you don't have to stop every three or four strips. You could potentially strip the whole boat in a day. The fishing line stays in until the whole boat is stripped, and then is pulled just prior to sanding. If your glue moves when you lift and turn over the strip, you likely have too much. I use a bead about the size of a pencil lead and still get squeeze-out when I clamp the strip. I also like that i can pull down on the top of the strip, and give it a bit of a wiggle as I fasten it down, to make sure that the cove is seated, without having to handle a fragile cove edge.
Best rgds
Rick
oysterbayboats.ca
Re: Cove up or bead up?
Rick
I'd like some more info, as I'd like to try the fishline technic !
With a no run glue, like Titebond makes, cove down might work !
I especially like that you just keep on stripping, and don't have to wait for the glue to dry.
I'd appreciate some tips on the technic !
Hope this isn't considered hi-jacking the thread !
Jim
I'd like some more info, as I'd like to try the fishline technic !
With a no run glue, like Titebond makes, cove down might work !
I especially like that you just keep on stripping, and don't have to wait for the glue to dry.
I'd appreciate some tips on the technic !
Hope this isn't considered hi-jacking the thread !
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
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- Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 10:02 am
- Location: Calgary, Alberta
Re: Cove up or bead up?
Rick,
I would like more information as well. Could you provide a drawing or photos?
This isn't hijacking the post--this is exactly what we all need to hear!
Bob
I would like more information as well. Could you provide a drawing or photos?
This isn't hijacking the post--this is exactly what we all need to hear!
Bob
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- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:25 am
- Location: Pender Harbour bc
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Re: Cove up or bead up?
Sorry not good with attaching photos but-
http://oysterbayboats.weebly.com/upload ... 89.jpg?404 shows first strip attached to the forms with screws (the holes will be hidden by the gunwhales) and the screws driven into the faces of the forms that will later help hold the strips in towards the forms. the next pic shows about 6 strips attached with the fishing line, and the line passing around the screws to hold everything in toward the forms.
http://oysterbayboats.weebly.com/upload ... 55.jpg?415
Each strip is wrapped to the previous ones starting by tying the line at the bow, and wrapping down the length of the boat and then it is clamped and cut off at the other end. I find that two passes of line per form is about right, the pass at the form goes around a screw, and the one between the forms just holds the strips together. Note that all the fishing line passes around the bottom of the shear, when the boat is all stripped, run a utility knife along that strip to cut all the lines and pull them out.
This is really hard to describe, hope to have some video later, from a class I'm doing, will post a link if it works out.
rgds
Rick
http://oysterbayboats.weebly.com/upload ... 89.jpg?404 shows first strip attached to the forms with screws (the holes will be hidden by the gunwhales) and the screws driven into the faces of the forms that will later help hold the strips in towards the forms. the next pic shows about 6 strips attached with the fishing line, and the line passing around the screws to hold everything in toward the forms.
http://oysterbayboats.weebly.com/upload ... 55.jpg?415
Each strip is wrapped to the previous ones starting by tying the line at the bow, and wrapping down the length of the boat and then it is clamped and cut off at the other end. I find that two passes of line per form is about right, the pass at the form goes around a screw, and the one between the forms just holds the strips together. Note that all the fishing line passes around the bottom of the shear, when the boat is all stripped, run a utility knife along that strip to cut all the lines and pull them out.
This is really hard to describe, hope to have some video later, from a class I'm doing, will post a link if it works out.
rgds
Rick
oysterbayboats.ca
Re: Cove up or bead up?
Pictures are worth at least a 1,000 words. Especially if I have to type them, with one finger at a time !
Thanks Rick.
Anxious for more !
Jim
Thanks Rick.
Anxious for more !
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!