Hey guys,
I just finally finished putting on the first strips on either side of my Huron Cruiser! This generally seemed to go well, although I took forever to settle on slope, etc.
I don't trust the clamps to not shift at all over time, so I screwed my jigs that support the first strips into the molds using drywall screws. It was a big pain in the butt to line everything up nicely clamping the jigs, then screw the jigs down without shifting anything out of place (my jigs aren't huge so I always had to remove the clamp to get a second screw into each jig).
I'm determined to come up with something and less error prone/frustrating next time for this part of setup. Maybe just ensuring I don't have to remove any clamp until all screws are in place. =P
Any other good suggestions for these starter jigs?
Here is my setup with the first strip(s)
Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
- Patricks Dad
- Posts: 1476
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
- Location: Warrenville, Illinois
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
I usually just staple the first strip in place (at the middle 5 or 6 forms). The staple holes will be covered by the gunwale. At the stem ends, it's already glued there. At other stations (if the first strip isn't fully following the sheerline), I just use my "L-shaped" jigs and tighten the clamp real good. After a couple strips are on, it will be rigid enough to not be a worry.
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
I just use clamps for the first "L" support brackets ... this is a pic of my solo boat, showing the first brackets, and nylon ties for stapleless (the ties were Randy's idea).
On my current boat I moved to bungee cord for clamping and I will migrate to 3/16 latex tubing for the next one ... you can see the clamps on this one from my current project. I also used a few cambucket straps to provide additional clamping in problem areas.
Brian
On my current boat I moved to bungee cord for clamping and I will migrate to 3/16 latex tubing for the next one ... you can see the clamps on this one from my current project. I also used a few cambucket straps to provide additional clamping in problem areas.
Brian
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
Thanks for the tips guys...maybe screwing the L-supports was overkill after all. It was certainly a pain to do, and adding screw holes to the molds isn't ideal. I find the MDF very slippery...wasn't taking any chances. =P
I did use a single finish nail instead of L-support for my first few stations from center, but my first strip follows closer to parallel with the waterline than sheerline.
The latex tubing idea sounds very good! I know I'm going to need something along those lines, and I almost bought bungie cords today. I've hesitated on the 'straps' approach just because it seems like a lot of fiddling each time I add a strip, especially when initially just planning to add one or two strips at a time.
Using occasional dabs of hot glue sounds convenient too, but I used packing tape to cover my form edges and I read that I might just pull tape off instead of holding strips down.
I did use a single finish nail instead of L-support for my first few stations from center, but my first strip follows closer to parallel with the waterline than sheerline.
The latex tubing idea sounds very good! I know I'm going to need something along those lines, and I almost bought bungie cords today. I've hesitated on the 'straps' approach just because it seems like a lot of fiddling each time I add a strip, especially when initially just planning to add one or two strips at a time.
Using occasional dabs of hot glue sounds convenient too, but I used packing tape to cover my form edges and I read that I might just pull tape off instead of holding strips down.
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
The bungee cord or tubing was cut into 10-12 foot lengths, having sections was easier to use ... primary use for this was to clamp the strips together, just spiraling down the strips.
I used the large nylon ties first boat, cam buckle straps on current one, at almost every canoe station, to pull the strips tight to the mold. Cam buckles are easy to tighten and loosen.
To protect the top cove, I just used 1/4" dowel, they come in 48" pieces here, just line those up and wrap tight.
There was a bit of discussion in this thread and near the end there is another method, using fishing line, suggested for holding the strips in for a stapleless build.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4541
Hopefully, you get enough info to figure out what feels comfortable for your setup (shop/materials/skillset)
Brian
I used the large nylon ties first boat, cam buckle straps on current one, at almost every canoe station, to pull the strips tight to the mold. Cam buckles are easy to tighten and loosen.
To protect the top cove, I just used 1/4" dowel, they come in 48" pieces here, just line those up and wrap tight.
There was a bit of discussion in this thread and near the end there is another method, using fishing line, suggested for holding the strips in for a stapleless build.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4541
Hopefully, you get enough info to figure out what feels comfortable for your setup (shop/materials/skillset)
Brian
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
Thanks for the link. The fishing line method looks interesting but I'm leaning more towards straps or ties.
Was it just the ease of loosening/tightening the straps that made you switch to cam buckles? Looking at the pictures I can see the appeal in the cable ties as well. It looks very simple/effective.
With the combo of straps/tubing being used, did you have to use jigs/wedges at all where new strips were going on? o_O
So far I've been using CanoeCraft style L-brackets on the top and wedging horizontally against the jig with shims, and applying down-force with beaded wedges made from scrap strips.
Was it just the ease of loosening/tightening the straps that made you switch to cam buckles? Looking at the pictures I can see the appeal in the cable ties as well. It looks very simple/effective.
With the combo of straps/tubing being used, did you have to use jigs/wedges at all where new strips were going on? o_O
So far I've been using CanoeCraft style L-brackets on the top and wedging horizontally against the jig with shims, and applying down-force with beaded wedges made from scrap strips.
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
I used the cable ties initially and they work fine, a little fiddly to get them to release, but they are fairly inexpensive and do the job. I moved to cam buckle because they are easier/faster to tension and release.
The process I would use is simply:
1) add the new strip(s) ... yes on the initial run to the bilge, you can do more than 1 strip, after, not so much.
2) tighten the buckles at the mold stations
3) wrap the tensioner (bungee cord, latex tube, palletizing tape)
4) add wedges under the cambuckle straps as required to snug to the molds.
5) check new strips at all molds, add adjustments as required
I didn't put buckles at all stations, just the ones where it seemed I would need to "persuade the strips to stay in position (about every other one). As I approached the bilge turn, I ended up adding a few more straps to the mix .... that part of the stripping process always seems to require more support for the transition (horizontal to vertical twist) at the bow and stern.
This pic was taken later in the stripping process. If you use straps, I found that using the little wooden guides on the mold, for the straps makes life easier, they keep the strap positioned and I made them tall enough to ease the edge pressure they put on the strips. I also used a wedge under the strap (just at the last one), since the easing leaves a little less pressure on the strip edge and the wedge works perfect as the final push to the mold. You can also see some palletizing tape and a bungee cord used to augment holding the strips at the "turn of the bilge". The straps will do most of the work, but you will always have to do some additional "adjustments" at the bow and stern area (IMO). (if you can't see the tape or bungee cord, click the pic to make it full size)
If you do use the bungee cord or latex tubing (3/16" is good), you can see I just wrapped round and round, then finished with a small plastic clamp .... to release, just pull the clamp and unwind. The reason I thought to move to latex tubing (not as readily available as B cord) was to avoid the glue adhering to the cord.
I hope some of this will be useful for you, in the end each builder more or less has to customize the process for their specific environment.
Brian
The process I would use is simply:
1) add the new strip(s) ... yes on the initial run to the bilge, you can do more than 1 strip, after, not so much.
2) tighten the buckles at the mold stations
3) wrap the tensioner (bungee cord, latex tube, palletizing tape)
4) add wedges under the cambuckle straps as required to snug to the molds.
5) check new strips at all molds, add adjustments as required
I didn't put buckles at all stations, just the ones where it seemed I would need to "persuade the strips to stay in position (about every other one). As I approached the bilge turn, I ended up adding a few more straps to the mix .... that part of the stripping process always seems to require more support for the transition (horizontal to vertical twist) at the bow and stern.
This pic was taken later in the stripping process. If you use straps, I found that using the little wooden guides on the mold, for the straps makes life easier, they keep the strap positioned and I made them tall enough to ease the edge pressure they put on the strips. I also used a wedge under the strap (just at the last one), since the easing leaves a little less pressure on the strip edge and the wedge works perfect as the final push to the mold. You can also see some palletizing tape and a bungee cord used to augment holding the strips at the "turn of the bilge". The straps will do most of the work, but you will always have to do some additional "adjustments" at the bow and stern area (IMO). (if you can't see the tape or bungee cord, click the pic to make it full size)
If you do use the bungee cord or latex tubing (3/16" is good), you can see I just wrapped round and round, then finished with a small plastic clamp .... to release, just pull the clamp and unwind. The reason I thought to move to latex tubing (not as readily available as B cord) was to avoid the glue adhering to the cord.
I hope some of this will be useful for you, in the end each builder more or less has to customize the process for their specific environment.
Brian
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
That was exactly the information I was looking for. I really appreciate you taking the time to spell it out so clearly.
I think I am going to adopt a good portion of this technique going forward. It seems pretty manageable compared to what I was doing.
So far I find I get myself into less trouble if I work from the center of the canoe towards stems when 'seating' new strips, so one small variation I might try is using two lengths of surgical tubing, and starting my winding from the center towards stem as two distinct steps. Probably not at all necessary but it is fun to experiment. =)
I think I am going to adopt a good portion of this technique going forward. It seems pretty manageable compared to what I was doing.
So far I find I get myself into less trouble if I work from the center of the canoe towards stems when 'seating' new strips, so one small variation I might try is using two lengths of surgical tubing, and starting my winding from the center towards stem as two distinct steps. Probably not at all necessary but it is fun to experiment. =)
Re: Stapleless construction Sheer-line jigs
I am glad you found some use in the info.
One thing I found with the tubing, I cut it up into 10'-12' sections. I found that anything longer got difficult to manage. Initially, they go a long way, as you add more strips they cover less, I needed about 5 12' lengths when I was approaching the football stage.
Good luck with your stripping ... post some pics ...
Brian
One thing I found with the tubing, I cut it up into 10'-12' sections. I found that anything longer got difficult to manage. Initially, they go a long way, as you add more strips they cover less, I needed about 5 12' lengths when I was approaching the football stage.
Good luck with your stripping ... post some pics ...
Brian