Slightly buckled strip...

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Grumple
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Grumple »

Yet another question, but I swear I'm making progress!

This time I've made a mistake, and it would be very hard to completely repair so I'm hoping I can just hide it with some clever sanding after things are all done.

I've added an accent strip comprised of one full size centre strip, and a smaller strip on top/bottom. When I added these, I think I used too much pressure to hold them down against each other. Even though I know I checked after placing the strips to see they were hugging the molds, I somehow missed something, and noticed last night that the top strip of the overall accent strip buckled slightly outward on that long stretch between the stem mold and the first station mold. So at the station mold the top of that strip is against the mold, but the bottom is stuck out maybe a bit over 1/16". Its not a lot but its not a tall strip so it feels like a lot.

After much moaning/groaning/head shaking, I decided not to try to replace the strip, as the glue was set, and the accent strip was a ton of time/effort to make in the first place.

I'm planning to plane the tiny raised bit on the outside of the hull off, and then smooth over the sight outward ridge created on the inside to hide it (ie a wider/gentle slope into this slightly shallow spot).

Does this make sense? The outside of the hull is obviously going to look fine, but I'm concerned about how well I can hide the 'low spot' on the inside where the strip was slightly pushed outward.

Needless to say, I'm being MUCH more careful to ensure this doesn't happen again...first canoe indeed. :mad
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Cruiser
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Cruiser »

I have something similar in a short section of my current build, and the solution would likely change depending on the situation.

If I understand your description, you have a bump on the outside and a ditch on the inside. You are going to flatten the bump and try and flare the ditch out.

Things to consider:
- if the fault inside is very near the end, it will likely not be very visible when you are finished with the canoe (decks etc)
- if you take the total thickness of the strips below 3/16", you may want to consider adding some back on the inside

So if you aren't really going to see much of the inside ditch, flaring enough for the fiberglass to adhere (if the ditch is too steep, the FG will pull away) seems like a good idea. On the outside, planing will solve the problem, just make sure you don't go too thin.

My little "flex" goes the other way, I intend to glue a very thin piece on the outside and plane/sand the area smooth. If mine was reversed, I would likely do as you plan.


Brian
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Grumple
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Grumple »

Once again, thanks for the advice, Brian. You described my problem very well in terms of a bump on the outside and a ditch on the inside.

I've had a few nights to think and recheck the situation, and I will plan to hide the issue via flaring the ditch on the inside and leveling off the outside. I think I can remove the ridge and still maintain a 3/16" thickness through the trouble spot (maybe a hair less at the worst of it).

Otherwise things are proceeding reasonably well. I've nearly made it to the turn of the bilge, so unfortunately I'm probably going to have to switch to 2 or even 1 strip at a time.

One other small issue I've noticed, is at just one end of the canoe, one side has creeped slightly above the other, such that the strips aren't perfectly aligned where they meet at the stem. I looked closely to see where this started, and I think one of the accent strips had a small defect where the cove was a bit more shallow than it should have been at one end. I know when I milled them the smallest accent strips gave me some grief going through the router for bead/cove (i.e. not forced against router bit firmly enough). There is no visible gap, so I don't think the issue was just not pressing one side down enough when seating strips.

I'm not 100% sure what I plan to do about this yet....I'm considering just slooooowly raising the low side by padding the cove at the end of a few successive strips with a tiny bit of glue-saturated sawdust. The idea would be to have the glue/sawdust add a tiny bit of thickness to each of a few successive strips to cancel out the height difference.

Is this a bad idea? Any other suggestions?

Here is a few pictures of current progress, if I can get them to show up...

Image

Image

Image
Stephen
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Stephen »

This post on cheater strips may have some useful advice. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2331

I know you're not to the football stage yet, but your problem is very similar.
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Cruiser
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Cruiser »

The canoe is looking very nice and that is a sharp accent strip ... I am a little jealous as I haven't been able to get at mine yet.

Anyway ... on to the front offset issue. First, from a "Will anybody notice " the strips offset, once the outer stem goes on, it just won't be possible to even see small strips misalignments at the bow and stern.

Now moving forward, I personally have used padding, but that was after the bilge and I didn't really have an option. If you are still interested after my suggestion, I can post a few pics of how I padded the strips to adjust the alignment. What might work better than adding material which is always a bit tricky, is to take a bit of material off the high side.

I think I would go back ~12" on the strip and lightly sand the cove, removing a small amount of wood. What you want is a very little at the start of the sanded area, a little more at the middle and a little more at the end. This will allow the strip to bent into the adjustment (the adjustment must be very gradual). Think total removed at end as being ~1/32" (max, so don't be aggressive). After a few strips you should be back in alignment, unless your version of "slight" is a lot more than mine.

Good luck

Brian
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Grumple
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Grumple »

That's a good link, Stephen, thanks. I had never even really considered the possibility that I could clear the top (bottom) of the stem prior to filling in the front end. The cheater strips seem like a great solution for that and more noticeable alignment issues.

In my case my alignment is only out a little bit so I think it'd be hard to make a strip that thickness at all. I'm considering starting my football with another 'accent' band of the dark walnut, and with such a contrast I want to make sure any alignment issues are dealt with by then.

Thanks for the compliment, Brian! Despite some frustration I've been really flattered by the reactions of friends/family, even in its current state. It's a huge motivator to just 'get back at it' on lazy weekend mornings.

I should give credit to John Michne for the accent strip pattern. I'm sure a lot of people here will recognize it from his accent strip tutorial anyway:
http://www.michneboat.com/Making%20Accent%20Stripes.htm

I just modified the sizes of the component pieces, etc, to suite my preferences. Next time I want to get a bit more creative!

I think I will take your suggestion of slightly sanding the beads on the ends of a few strips on the high side to re-align everything. It seems cleaner and more reliable (if more effort) than padding the low side up. I'm seeing around 3/32" out of alignment, so I think we are on the same page. It sounds like so little when you right it down, but looks like so much when I picture the walnut strips offset from each other by that much or more.. =P
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Cruiser
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Cruiser »

Right now it is only visible because you can see both strips beside each other, as I said when the stem goes on, that's the last time you can see both sides at once from outside the boat.

If you fix the alignment now, it should be much easier to maintain as you proceed, then if you add the accent strips on the bottom, it should be easier.


Enjoy your build.

Brian
Stephen
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Stephen »

Yeah, 3/32" would be a very flimsy cheater strip to handle. I should have realized you would likely have only a small mismatch this early in the game.

I really like the canoes with the second accent strip around the football, and this particular strip should look fantastic. By the time you get that far you should be an expert at keeping the strips aligned.
Stephen
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Location: Eastern Ontario

Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Stephen »

I had never even really considered the possibility that I could clear the top (bottom) of the stem prior to filling in the front end.
It took me a while to figure out what you meant here, but I think you're referring to Greg's (canoeblderinmt) photobucket album. He doesn't specifically say, but I believe his problem arose from bending the first strip to follow the sheer line the whole length of the canoe rather than letting it find its own natural arc at the ends. http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/c ... t/BooBoos/

The strips on your canoe look to be fairly parallel to the waterline, so you shouldn't have this particular problem.
Last edited by Stephen on Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Patricks Dad
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Patricks Dad »

I'm a little late to this thread by my 2 cents worth is that flattening the bump will be fine. How much you need to smooth out the ditch in the inside is up to you depending on where it's located. If it's 1/16" it's bound to be pretty manageable.

As for the misalignment of the strips as you go up the stem, correcting it over a series of a few strips now will help keep things aligned now. Rather than "pad" strips to make them wider of the side that is behind, I suggest you use a block plane to taper a few strips on the tall side to make them a very slight bit narrower on the end that is ahead. The taper should be over a length of the strip long enough to make it not noticeable (probably 2 or 3 feet).

have fun. Nice looking craft!
Randy Pfeifer
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Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com
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Grumple
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Grumple »

Awesome, thanks again for the suggestions/morale support, guys.

I've started trying to adjust the alignment of the strips by very subtly removing a bit of material from new strips on the high side. Its a bit finicky to get right but seems to be working very well.

I'm just entering the turn of the bilge area now, and went from initially laying 3 strips at a time, down to 2, then just one strip on each side yesterday. I thought I might be being overly cautious, but in the end was glad to only have the one strip to deal with through the twists and turns. I really hope I can get back to multiple strips per session once I've come around to the bottom of the boat!
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Cruiser »

Up to the bilge is the fast part .... I always resign myself to slowing to singles after the bilge.

The fit is a lot more finicky and takes time (once you get past the stem area that is) ... now would be the time to be very patient and get it right.



Brian
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Grumple
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Re: Slightly buckled strip...

Post by Grumple »

Ya I was hoping to be able to switch back to 2 at a time once clear of the sharp curve at the turn, but I get the impression that the bottom/football presents plenty of its own challenges.

Hehe I find my eagerness to get this thing done ramping up even more as spring sets in. The nicer the day, the faster my Michne stick goes. =P
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