Bury coat epoxy nightmare (cellulite look)

[Travelers Rest Ron]

My second canoe build has gone well till yesterday. This weekend I accomplished fabric wet out, then the weave fill and yesterday was bury phase. Prior to the third coat I used 120 grit paper on my orbital and it brought up gummy stuff on disc. I completed the boat after using 15 disc due to gum. The gum build up was all over the boat so I used Acetone to clean gummy deposits on boat which worked well by breaking them down. I got it all cleaned up. My coat went well for the first 5 minutes until I saw that the epoxy was looking like cellulite with holes developing. I continued thinking that if it was wrong I need the whole coat to be wrong. Now it is drying and still looks horrible. I'm thinking that the acetone knocked down the sanding edges so the adheration was not good. What should I do now? I'm thinking letting it cure for a week and then using 60 grit to take it down to just shy of cloth or should I try a fill coat to fill in hole? Sanding is my predicted course of action.

Here are the pics of the boat. It is similar to an orange peel texture. Some questions for both of you, if you please:
1. What grit sand paper would you use to remove 60?
2. Is it ok to make batch after batch of epoxy in same cup for the one coat.
3. I notice that the viscosity makes the brush drag almost right away..can epoxy in jug get old?
4. When is a roller ok to use?
5. Woud you agree that the west system is the best?

Thanks for the help
Obviously I'm a rookie but I do have a few ideas tha I have not seen elsewhere.
1. Once set I ran a 1x2 along the bottom of station forms to use as a fulcrum to pull strips to forms using velcro strips.
2. Velcro strip storage should be stuck to a perpendicular sticky velcro on each end..loose velcro is a knot nightmare.
3. I suspended a stick from the ceiling with a flat base to hose spring clips, glue and c clamps pics to come.
4. Glue bottle filling is another issue. I bought another epoxy pump #5 to attch to my gallon of glue, it make refilling much easier. A small screw in the pump outlet keep passageway from drying.
Thanks for your time

[alick burt]

Hi Ron
I'm no expert but...
It sounds to me like you have gone a bit too heavy too early with your sanding.
The sanding between coats is supposed to be just a light scuffing by hand just to key the epoxy for the next coat.
Then when you have finished the resin process it is good to leave it for a week before sanding so it can harden well.big lumps and runs are best removed with a scraper as it won't clog like sandpaper.
I am not sure what your cellulite problem is but it sounds like some sort of contamination issue.If you post some pictures others might be able to help identify the problem.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Alick

[Patricks Dad]

Adding to Alick's comments. I would agree that it sounds like your use of acetone to clean up the sanding problem may be the source of your "Cellulite" problem. Does it look like orange peel? As Alick noted, you only need to sand lightly by hand between coats if you sand at all (I generally put on all coats in one go with no sanding between any coats).

What epoxy are you using? Is it reported to be blush-less? How much time passed between the first 2 coats and sanding for the 3rd coat??

If the first 2 coats were still green, sanding with any power would be bad and would produce a gummy result. But heavily blushed yet cured epoxy may produce similar results. And sanding the blush only makes matters worse as it just kind of moves the blush around rather than sands it (all) off. So, if it was blushing, it would contribute to the problem. Blush is best removed with soap and water (some people use vinegar followed by water).

As for what to do next, I would consider just letting it cure a good week or 2 (at room temp - what temp were you operating at when glassing?), and then sand it down to a smooth surface (if your have blushing epoxy, you should get rid of blush from the 3rd coat first before sanding).

Post some pics if you can.

good luck!

[Travelers Rest Ron]

I tried to upload a few pics but they were well over the 255 k maximum.
The epoxy is the Total Boat 5 to 1 ratio. No indication on jug about the blush issue although a mention of using alcohol but not petro based cleaning fluid. I'm not sure if acetone is or not but I can assure you that I'll never use it other than cleaning tools.

The temp was 68 with a touch extra humidity here is SC.

I also did not mention that applying the epoxy was rather difficult due to its viscousness. I used a good chip brush from West Marine. I'm not sure if contamination happened. I mixed 4 pumps in a cup and poured it into a wider cup that fit my brush better and I continued to use the same cup for mixing throughout the coat. Would that make a difference?
Ron

[alick burt]

Hi Ron
Some folk use thinners (acetone) to clean the hull and then leave to dry as a last step before glassing to remove any grease that my be present but it shouldn't be used between epoxy coats so that might have been the problem.
cissing as it is often called can be caused by the smallest amount of wax grease or oil.Polishes containing Silicon sometimes used on woodmachine tables etc to make your woodslide can cause the problem.Silicones are sometimes in furniture polish so if the have been sprayed into the air these could have settled on your hull.
re photos you probably need to resize them.In windows 7 I right click choose edit and then resize and save them to another folder.In any case they will also have to be put onto photobucket or Imgur.com or some other such site before you can post them here.
Cheers
Alick

[Travelers Rest Ron]

Here are the pics of the boat. It is similar to an orange peel texture. Some questions for both of you, if you please:
1. What grit sand paper would you use to remove 60?
2. Is it ok to make batch after batch of epoxy in same cup for the one coat.
3. I notice that the viscosity makes the brush drag almost right away..can epoxy in jug get old?
4. When is a roller ok to use?
5. Woud you agree that the west system is the best?

Thanks for the help
Obviously I'm a rookie but I do have a few ideas tha I have not seen elsewhere.
1. Once set I ran a 1x2 along the bottom of station forms to use as a fulcrum to pull strips to forms using velcro strips.
2. Velcro strip storage should be stuck to a perpendicular sticky velcro on each end..loose velcro is a knot nightmare.
3. I suspended a stick from the ceiling with a flat base to hose spring clips, glue and c clamps pics to come.
4. Glue bottle filling is another issue. I bought another epoxy pump #5 to attch to my gallon of glue, it make refilling much easier. A small screw in the pump outlet keeps passageway from drying.
Thanks for your time

[Patricks Dad]

1. What grit sand paper would you use to remove 60?
RDP: I never use anything coarser than about 100 grit. You will need to be very careful to not hit the glass. Patience.

2. Is it ok to make batch after batch of epoxy in same cup for the one coat.
RDP: for a given coat, I do use the same cup. I usually wipe it out a bit with a paper towel every so often (every few batches)

3. I notice that the viscosity makes the brush drag almost right away..can epoxy in jug get old?
RDP: Epoxy doesn't get old. I does tend to darken in color and can crystalize (heating it dissolves the crystals should that happen).

4. When is a roller ok to use?
RDP: I don't think I've ever used a roller but many builders do.

5. Woud you agree that the west system is the best?
RDP: I have primarily used West System epoxy. I have tried S3 but went back to West. No strong complaints about any particular epoxy. But do like the reliability of West (It may be just what you get used to). I've never seen West System Epoxy blush.

[Travelers Rest Ron]

Randy,

Thank you very much for the time you have taken to clarify my issues, it is very much appreciated. Everyone has been awesome.
I retired about two years ago and my aim is to eventually make enough to bring my wife to Hawaii in the future. What is the best way to sell a boat? Ebay, Craigslist or forums?

Ron