Installing Outside Stem

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Peter Kotowych
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 8:10 pm
Location: Midland, Ontario

Installing Outside Stem

Post by Peter Kotowych » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:48 am

Sorry to bother you, but I have a big problem.
I am building a Ranger, my 3rd canoe.
My youngest son wanted to build it but computer games got the best of him, so I am finishing it.

I glued the outer stem yesterday. I took out the screws about 8 hrs later.
When I went back in to the garage, the lower section, about 2/3 had come loose.
One thing I did was to put on a lot of just epoxy before I applied the epoxy/hardener. Maybe there was too much epoxy overall.
Actually on the last 2 canoes I don't think I did this epoxy alone thing.
I haven't built a canoe in 6 years so I was going right by the book and the DVD.
Should I just try thickened epoxy without any fibres the way it is.
Or should I try to remove what is presently there as best I can and then apply the thickend epoxy, with or without fibres.
Thanks
Pete
I love wood!

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Grumple
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Grumple » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:46 pm

Do you mean you added a bunch of epoxy that didn't have any hardener mixed at all?

Peter Kotowych
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 8:10 pm
Location: Midland, Ontario

Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Peter Kotowych » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:10 am

Initially, I just applied epoxy alone as the book says.
I love wood!

Peter Kotowych
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 8:10 pm
Location: Midland, Ontario

Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Peter Kotowych » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:13 am

Sorry, once the exoxy has soaked in I applied the thickend epoxy.
The other thing I was thinking of is that I applied too much pressure and sqeezed out
most of the thickend epoxy.
I love wood!

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Grumple
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Grumple » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:25 am

If you are talking about CanoeCraft, I thought it meant to apply un-thickened epoxy+hardener, then apply thickened epoxy+hardener.

Squeeze out is always a concern with glue, but did the epoxy you initially applied ever set at all?

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Denis
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Location: Lakefield, Ontario
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Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Denis » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:03 pm

I think the question still is, and pardon us if we are wrong but you did mix the resin and hardener together and then applied it , first clear, to let it soak into the cedar planking and inner stem and then added thicked mixed epoxy and fasten the outer stem in. I use parraffined metal screws to attach the outer stem which I remove after the epoxy sets and insert wooden plugs.

Sometimes after I wet it out if I think there is too much clear mixed epoxy I wipe it off with a clean dry rag and then apply the thicked epoxy.

If the epoxied area is still sticky after setting overnight I would supect it wasnt mixed thouroughly enough

Denis

now if I could just learn how to apply varnish better :laughing

Peter Kotowych
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 8:10 pm
Location: Midland, Ontario

Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Peter Kotowych » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:31 pm

Hi,

I think I got mixed up with the terminology.
The term thickened epoxy I took to mean, epoxy with hardener.
That was my mistake.
Initially I just applied epoxy by itself.
Anyway, I corrected the problem. I sanded the surfaced and re-glued.
It is fine now.
Thanks for your help.
Maybe its because I'm getting older. :o)
I love wood!

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Denis
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Location: Lakefield, Ontario
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Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Denis » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:09 pm

Good stuff
glad you got it fixed :applause

Denis

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Grumple
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Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Grumple » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:32 pm

That's great to hear!

Any chance of seeing some pictures? :cool

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Patricks Dad
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Location: Warrenville, Illinois

Re: Installing Outside Stem

Post by Patricks Dad » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:55 pm

Glad you got it fixed! (not that you need this advice - but for casual readers here....)

In general, there should never any time where you would use un-catalyzed epoxy. Anytime you see a reference to unthickened epoxy it means it has been mixed with hardener but without any other material. Thickened epoxy refers to catalyzed epoxy (resin + hardener) with something to make it much thicker (such as sanding dust or Carb-o-sil or similar).

The idea with using unthickened epoxy first is to ensure it soaks into the end-grain of the strips to the point that it will take no more. Once you get to that point, you can be assured that the joint won't be starved when you add thickened epoxy (which will fill any gaps you have).

Best of luck on the remainder of your build!
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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