Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

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tomkis
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Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by tomkis » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:22 pm

Hi proffesionals :)
I have plan to build canoe Ranger 15, and have much questions.
1. How to count aproximatly how much wood i need for this canoe.
Boards is 3 meters long. It will be very bad to join strips?
I find in shop this kind of cedar, if i cut like that it will be ok?
size.jpg
sorry for measurements, i am from Norway :)
2.About glassfiber. I find 135 gr glassfiber, but max width is 100 cm. i think its not enought to cover all canoe, its ok to join it? http://www.westsystem.no/p/12182/glassf ... vet-135-gm

...to be continued
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Cruiser
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Cruiser » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:50 pm

Hi Tomkis,

Since you are just getting started, I won't get into to many details about grain orientations and such. Just one point I want to make about using shorter boards, you can join them before hand and cut strips that are the right length in the first place.

Just skarf together 2 boards that make up the length you want, plus whatever you decide for skarf distance. For strip boards you really don't need too much of a ratio, say 3 or 4 to 1, or 25 to 30 degrees, which ever works for you .... here is a pic of some cherry I did that with :

Image

The angled join lends strength to the board, the longer that joint, the stronger it is, somewhere around 9/1 it is considered as strong as not having a joint. For your purposes, you really won't need more than 3 to 1.

Also a good idea to vary where that joint is on other boards you prepare, you don't want all the joints in the same area of the boat.


So I would consider making longer boards first, then cutting strips from those.

Brian

Stephen
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Stephen » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:55 am

Welcome Tomkis,

To figure out the length of full length strips, the common rule is to add 1 foot (~30cm) to the length of the canoe. For the Ranger this would be 16 ft (~4.88 m) It is not necessary to use full length strips, but many prefer it for aesthetic reasons. You can join strips end to end, either with a scarf joint or a simple butt joint, with good results.

You plan to cut your strips 6 mm x 25 mm (~ 15/64" x 63/64"). Many in North America cut their strips 1/4" x 3/4" (~ 6.4 mm x 19.1 mm). Bear Mountain sells strips that are 1/4" x 13/16" (~ 6.4 mm x 20.6 mm). I think 6 mm thickness will be fine, and while 25 mm may be a bit wider than normal it might be okay. The advantage of wider strips is that it will take fewer glue joints to cover the same area of hull but you must remove slightly more material from the inside and outside of the hull to get a fair curve; this will make the hull a little bit thinner. The advantage of narrower strips is that they approximate the curve of the hull more closely, so you will remove less material and have a thicker hull. The idea is to compromise between the two.

How many 16 foot strips will you need to make? This again depends on what width they are. The Bear Mountain kits for most canoes including the Ranger has 64 strips 1/4" x 13/16", of the appropriate length. My calculations suggest that this is the equivalent of 52 strips 6 mm x 25 mm x 4.88 m, assuming bead and cove edges. (Bear in mind that metric is not my native tongue :-). Always make a few extra strips when in doubt.

135 gr glassfiber corresponds to 4 oz fiberglass http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=13 ... z%2Fyd%5E2. People use this type, but I usually see 6 oz cloth used. This would be equal to 200 gr glassfiber. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=6+ ... +g%2Fm%5E2.

I will leave it to more experienced members to debate the advantages of 4 oz versus 6 oz cloth.

Unavailability of wide cloth in Europe is a common complaint in this forum. I believe some join narrow strips of cloth; I do not know the quality of the results.
Last edited by Stephen on Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jim Dodd
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Jim Dodd » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:14 am

Great advise from Stephen.

I'd also echo a warm welcome !

I usually like to have about 65 full length strips. More is always better, as it gives you more choices for color combinations, and sorting of flawed strips.

A saw, depending on the type and kerf width, will turn a lot of your plank into sawdust!

I like to start with at least 24 " of plank width, Two 1"x12", or three 1"x8".
Again , more is better. I also use the skilsaw method of cutting strips, using a thin kerf blade.

I butt join my strips on the canoe. Just my preference.

Be sure and wear good dust protection. Wood dust, especially the fine stuff, will be bad on your lungs .

Good luck !

Jim
Last edited by Jim Dodd on Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

Stephen
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Stephen » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:49 am

Tomkis
I like to start with at least 24 " of plank with, Two 1"x12", or three 1"x8".
Bear in mind that in North America we use what is called nominal lumber size. I do not know if lumber in Norway is nominal or exact size.

Nominal size is the size of the board before planing, so one inch lumber is planed at the lumber yard usually to 3/4 inch, and the width is also planed smaller. http://www.howelumber.com/FAQ_Dimensional_lumber.php

We've used both ways in Canada, so I know it can be confusing if we are not talking about the same thing.

By the way, the strip sizes I gave earlier are exact sizes, not nominal.

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Cruiser
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Cruiser » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:39 pm

If I read the original post correctly, he will be skarfing every strip at least once, not sure I would want to do that much butt joining on a boat. That's why I suggested initial skarfing, the joints are stronger and it would be less hassle when stripping.

As far as cutting strips, I am just cutting down some 2 x 6 northern white cedar for my next build ... I wasn't looking forward to that as they are a bit awkward for my main saw. I did some initial cuts using the circular saw method that Jim is talking about, and I have to say I went from skeptical to very impressed. Once you have the setup there are a lot of practical reasons for this being a viable, practical method and in most instances, likely superior to table or radial saw methods.

I will still cut the 1/4" x 2" strips down to 7/8" x 1/4" on my radial saw, but the real work is getting the 1/4" strips in the first place. I think the main advantage of doing the 1/4" cuts with the circular saw, is that it only has 12-14" of flat that follows the wood, so if the wood has a slight curve it just follows the curve and you get a consistent thickness. Once the strips are cut, they are so flexible it won't matter any more.

I will plane the final strips, but that is because I bought a plane this year and the novelty still hasn't worn off.

Brian

tomkis
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by tomkis » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:48 am

Thanks for answers and tips:) I find right lenght boards. Try order.

How much layers of glassfiber (6oz)need?

I see problem here with glassfiber, 6oz (200gr.)cloth is only 80 cm widght from west system. Maybe no problem if i join it in the middle outside, but how it looks inside.

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Jim Dodd
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Jim Dodd » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:04 am

Tomkis

I'm hoping that you are beading and coving your strips !
This is a little more work and expense, but totally worth it !
It's a great aid for butt joining.

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

Stephen
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Location: Eastern Ontario

Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Stephen » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:04 pm

I found this site from another Norwegian builder (GeirB) on this forum. Perhaps it will be useful. http://www.kanokajakksiden.info
http://www.kanokajakksiden.info/Konverteringsside.htm

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Patricks Dad
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by Patricks Dad » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:21 am

Tomkis, as for your question of how many layers of 6 oz glass....

1 layer inside and 1 layer outside is most common. If you expect harsh environments, consider a 2nd layer on just the football area inside and out (but this is not common).

Using narrower glass (because of availability) can work. A carefully placed and managed seam is fine.

Enjoy your build!
Randy Pfeifer
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Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

hughhallhh56
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by hughhallhh56 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:26 pm

God dag Tomkis,

Regarding the dimensions of the wood, 6mm will be fine for the thickness. That is the size I use. I also use 25 mm width but you may find that it is hard to work with when bending it around parts of the canoe. 20 mm will be easier to work with. If you have a planner you can reduce the thickness of the board.

I have never had to join my wood together (it is called scarfing) since i can easily get 6m boards. I will let others with much more experience discuss that.

When cutting your boards do purchase a thin kerf saw blade. It reduces the waste significantly and makes the boards easier to cut. I use a Bosch Daredevil 24 bit blade. http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Acce ... additional

Ha Det!

Hugh

hughhallhh56
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Re: Quantity of materials (Canoe Ranger 15)

Post by hughhallhh56 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:52 pm

God kveld!

Also, if you can, it is best if you can find boards that have grain that look like this:
Capture.GIF
The strips you make will be easier to work with.

Med vennlig hilsen

Hugh
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