brass screws for hanging seats

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WMegl
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brass screws for hanging seats

Post by WMegl » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:40 am

Does anyone have a suggestion on where I could find 6 in. long, #10 brass machine screws for hanging my seats? My preiminary measurements indicate my longest bolt will be 5 in., but I don't want to cut it too close.

I have tried Home Depot, Fastenal, BoltDepot, Fastenere, Hillman, Grainger, MSC, and Jamestown Distributors.

I did find them in stainless, but I want the brass look which will match my stem bands.

If I can't find them in brass, I could use stainless, countersink them, and plug the holes. But, I'm shooting for brass.

I was thinking I could use a 3 in. or so brass screw, attach it to a coupling hidden in the wooden dowel spacer, then connect a brass threaded rod (or screw with the head cut off) to the spacer and through the seat.

A 6 in. brass screw would be a lot easier.

Thanks.
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ckebsww
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by ckebsww » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm

The longest brass screw I could find in McMaster Carr in a 1/4" diameter was 3" https://www.mcmaster.com/92453a554
I used their stainless steel socket heads for mine, but I also did a hidden fastener system up into Helicoils so nothing showed.

ckebsww
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by ckebsww » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:33 pm

They do sell threaded rod in longer lengths....

sedges
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by sedges » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:01 pm

Yeah, well, we all want long small diameter brass or bronze bolts, but we are a tiny market and nobody else seems to want them. Sooo.....
I never used longer than 4 inch silicon bronze carriage bolts in 3/16. They are still available, but costly. I always felt comfortable with seats that high. For those wishing for lower seats, stainless steel is the only option I have found. I really don't notice them being not bronze. Just make all your exposed hardware the same material. You can readily get 3/16th x 6 inch machine screws and the accompanying finishing washers, or whatever they call them. Unfortunately there are no SS carriage bolts that long.

sedges
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by sedges » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:21 pm

https://www.wooden-canoes.com/canoes/ma ... /hardware/
The source for SB 3/16 x 4 carriage bolts.

The SS machine screws are listed as #10-24 rather than 3/16. If you look hard you might find Philips head, but all I found were slotted. Most marine supply places carry them.

You can get 1/4 brass or bronze bolts to 6 inches, but I always felt that weaken the gunnel to much.

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Jim Dodd
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by Jim Dodd » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:08 pm

In some of my very Early builds, I used Zinc 1/4" carriage bolts. Being a welder by trade at the time, I brazed the heads of the carriage bolts with a fluxed bronze rod, and polished them. Easy to do ! I still have a few of those canoes.
Zinc is not the Best choice, as now days, I spend the Big Bucks for Stainless.
With #10 - 24 machine screws, you are going to want to use a washer. to spread the weight on your inwhale. Finding them in matching Bronze, might also be difficult.
On a recent Wee Lasse type build, I used SS #10-24 Phillips counter sink head and a SS cupped washer. Purchased from Fastenal.

Good luck in your Bronze quest !

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

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Cruiser
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by Cruiser » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:12 am

We all have our visions and will go a aways to achieve them, in this case, since the pieces in question don't really appear together at any point, so you really be the only person to notice that detail. given the superior strength and availability of SS ... I would think that smaller and more readily available SS 3/16" Carriage bolts may be a alternative option.

I ordered a dozen 1.5" bolts and a length of threaded rod ... then had a friend/local shop just weld sections on the rod to the bolts ... voila, longer seat hangers. Since this was a weight conscious build, being able to go to a smaller bolt was a bonus.

I know you have your heart set on bronze, I am thinking you could do the same thing, but sometimes rethinking the goal is a good idea as well.

Brian

mneubauer
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by mneubauer » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:43 am

I just got a shipment of silicon-bronze carriage bolts from this fellow. he shows 6" long available.


© Top Notch Fasteners [tnfasteners.com] All Rights Reserved.
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WMegl
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by WMegl » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:14 am

Thanks to all for your replies.

I contacted Top Notch Fasteners and the thinnest silicon-bronze bolt they carry is 1/4 in. I agree with sedges that a 1/4 in. bolt is too thick for the inner gunwale. Mine are 5/8 in. at the top and just under 7/8 in. at the bottom. Canoe Craft calls for a 3/16 in. bolt which is 0.1875 in. A #10 is 0.19 in.

Based on the information in the comments and what I have found, I think I'm down to 2 choices:

1. Purchase #10(or 3/16) X 2 in. or so brass bolts and some brass threaded rod. Use oxyacetylene to weld the rod to the bolt to the proper length.
This will require the correct alloy rod.
2. Purchase a #10(or 3/16) X 6 in. bolt in a non-corrosive material such as stainless steel and braze and polish the head for a "brass" look.

I think I'm leaning towards the first choice. I need to see if the correct alloy rod is availble.

Thanks again for all the good comments.
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Jim Dodd
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by Jim Dodd » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:22 pm

A Threaded collar may be better, than welding ? As a Welder, it would be hard to weld, and maintain the strength of a threaded rod, of that small of a diameter.
I replaced gunnels on a friends stripper, that the original builder used SS #10 - 24 threaded countersink phillips headed bolts. The hanger bracket was drilled oversize, to accommodate the very low hung seat.
Yes, finding the Bronze you are looking for, might be available, somewhere ! Keep looking !!!

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

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WMegl
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by WMegl » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:22 am

Jim: I spoke with my welding supply company and was informed that brazing would be an adequate fix.

I have brazing rod, so I ordered all my hardware: 1-1/2 inch brass, flathead #10 X 24 bolts(these were the longes they had with hex heads), brass finish washers, brass flat washers, brass nylock nuts, and brass threaded rod.

I am an amateur welder and have brazed before, so I think this will work. I will post my results.

Thanks for your input.
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WMegl
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by WMegl » Tue May 14, 2019 2:16 pm

I was able to braze brass screws to threaded rod to make screws long enough for my seat supports. I wanted them to be brass and hex flathead screws and after much searching, couldn't find them in 5 in. lengths.

The only question I still have is if the brazed joint is strong enough. If a 200 lb. person has a seat, each joint must support 50 lbs. which my intuition tells me it should. As a back up, I will obtain some commercially available sccrews that come in 5 in. lengths but are not brass nor hex flathead and keep them in the boat.


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Cruiser
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Re: brass screws for hanging seats

Post by Cruiser » Tue May 14, 2019 2:50 pm

I did the same thing, only in stainless and I used 1/8" carriage bolts . This has been fine.

You are using a different material and it may not be quite as strong, but carrying a spare may be an idea ... at least for the first trip.

The weight distribution between the seat risers won't be split evenly all the time .... if you sit forward or back from seat center, the load will shift ... as well as when you reach or lean sideways, so load could get much higher than 1/4 of your weight.

Brian

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