Ke Kalakupua Damage Pics

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KARKAUAI
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Ke Kalakupua Damage Pics

Post by KARKAUAI » Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:55 pm

Aloha, all,
Well, finally got some pics of the damage. They were taken by my neighbor and friend, looks like they took snapshots and scanned 3 at a time. I've posted them on the website at http://www.karkauai.com . Click on the Shipping Damage tab at the top.
Any thoughts from those of you who've done repairs? Glen, does the offer still stand? I've got the bummers all over again. :crying :mad Oh well, I'm in sunny Kauai, playing golf, paddling with the Namolokama Canoe Club 3 days a week, losing a few pounds (lots to go though, don't burn up too many calories building boats), learning to windsurf, and getting a serious tan. :eyebrows Life is still good.
A hui ho,
Kent

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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:06 am

Hi Kent, it seems to have quite a bit of damaged glass which would have to be either cut out and patched or totally removed and redone. Broken wood can always be replaced without too much difficulty.

As I said before, I would love to have a crack at it (no pun intended), but it seems to me that you might be able to locate somewhere in or around Hickory who could do it and keep the cost down not the mention the added transportation exposure. Think about it.

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Dean in Eureka, CA
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Post by Dean in Eureka, CA » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:16 am

What those guys did, is worthy of a hangin'.
I would insist they pay all repair costs and transportation costs as well.
If I remember right, you had 3K worth of protection, but what they did was unexplainable.
Kent, are you allowed to say what frieght company did this?
It reminds me of an out of town job I did for an Indian casino.
Some of my 24' extruded storefront lineals were bent into a giant horse shoe.
Some of it was so bad, they wouldn't or couldn't even show it to me.
They started pointing fingers at "other" frieght carriers. I did a little investigating and found out those "other" frieght carriers were sister companies to the one that I used.
All I can say is be patient when you settle with them.
I had a real hard time keeping calm and cool, because I found myself getting the run around, spending most of the day sometimes on the phone being referred onto the "next" guy.
I lost about a month's worth of productivity, since I was living out of a travel trailer on the jobsite.
(Paddleman will get 'em!)
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Dean in Eureka, CA

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Erik, Belgium
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Post by Erik, Belgium » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:24 am

Kent,

I admire how positive you 're staying with all this disaster.
I wonder what the hell has happened in order that such a huge damage was done to your lovely outrigger. At least you should get an honest answer to that. Seems that it either fell from a considerable height or that it was sitting at the bottom of a loaded ship/truck/plane and lots of other luggade had freeplay.

I 've seen you got some input for repair on the kayakforum as well. Hope you make it to save your outrigger.

Erik, Belgium

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Its Me
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Post by Its Me » Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:09 am

What did you ship it in. Although from the resultant damage it looks like it would have taken a concrete vault to protect it. Did you build a create? Use a sonic tube?

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canoebuildinggolfer
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Post by canoebuildinggolfer » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:32 am

Kent, I really feel for you...betrayal of trust is hard to bare....in a past life I used to install fibreglass swimming pools....in the early days they were delivered on a semi trailer and needed a Police escort because of thier width....then someone built a tilt trailer...the pool stood-up at 25-30* and did not exceed the 12' wide load criteria...maybe to adapt a boat trailer would be the go....you should be able to use lumber and bolt it all together...then anyone could tow it as required...an engineer would probably love the challenge of design :thinking .....anyway goodluck both with settlement and transport TC

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hoz
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shipping

Post by hoz » Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:43 am

shipping a canoe by freight should ALWAYS be in some kind of crate. It doesn't have to be wood. A simple wrapped carton of heavy corrugated cardboard will do. Dock workers slip, slide, push, pull and drag stuff all day and they are not always gentle.

I am sorry for your loss. It was a work of art and love. . Must be heartbreaking.

:crying
someday I'll fly, someday I'll soar

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KARKAUAI
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Post by KARKAUAI » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:57 am

Mahalo for all your sympathies, guys,
I was told that to insure it I would have to build a crate to certain specifications that would have made it too heavy to handle by hand. I was told the crate would have been shipped alone (not in a container), and that it would be more likely to get damaged than it would bubblewrapped in a container. It was going to cost me ~$4000+ to do it that way, but only $700 in a container. I figured that the money wouldn't make things any better if it did get damaged, so I wrapped it in ~4" of heavyduty bubblewrap and loaded it into the truck bound for the west coast myself. The manu (vertical projections at the stems) were reinforced with wooden strips and heavy cardboard. Erik, I still don't know what happened, but I'm going to insist that any settlement include a specific description of what caused the damage...right now it seems nobody's accepting any responsibility and that's p....ing me off more than anything at this point. To get that kind of damage it seems like they either dropped it from really high, or dropped something very heavy on it. When I know which shipper did the damage, I'll let you know, but don't want to name the wrong one. CBG, the outriggers come off and are shipped separately, so it's just the wa'a (hull) that needs to be crated. Apparantly the crate makes it heavy enough that it can't be loaded endwise into a container, and it's too long and thin to be loaded into the container by a forklift. Looking at the damage, I'm not sure if a crate would have protected it anyway, particularly a heavy duty cardboard crate, Hoz. Next time, I'll drive it to the coast myself and put it in a container bound for Kauai on top of whatever else is in the crate...don't know what else to do.
Glen, I'm open to suggestions about finding someone closer to Hickory, NC to take it on if I don't think I can do the repairs in adequate fashion or in time to come back to Hawaii late next summer. If anybody has any pics of patched holes, I'd like to see them. If the best I can come up with after repairs is a canoe quilt, I'll probably start over. I thought about patching with fish-shaped patches below the waterline, or flowers above the waterline...any other suggestions?
A hui ho,
Kent

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Dean in Eureka, CA
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Post by Dean in Eureka, CA » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:10 pm

Kent,
These are my personal thoughts of what I would probably do if I were in your shoes;
First of all, I'd look at the wa'a as a total loss, at least as far as the shipper is concerned.
I would be tempted to find a canoe museum that would accept in it's current state, willing to put it on display, giving credit to the shipping outfit for their "work." At least, this is what I'd be tempted to tell the shipper, if they aren't cooperative, willing to settle for a "fair" amount, which should be way more than the 3K you had it insurred for and willing to tell you the truth as to what happened. (Good luck getting to the bottom of that BTW)
Successful or not with the shipper, this approach would at least get builders attention in regards to shipping considerations if the wreck was put on display.
After dealings are completed with the shippers, I would wash my hands of it and start over, using the previous build experience as a spring board to build the "perfect" wa'a.
I don't care how nice of a job you or anyone else are able to pull off, I would still find myself thinking about it later, like when I'm out sailing. I had a similar experience once with a brand new sports car, which was almost totaled while it was parked. It was a week and a half old. Yes, a body shop did repair it in such a way, that it looked brand new again, but other problems cropped up later on, like uneven tire wear for example and if I'm not mistaken... you hadn't even taken your wa'a for a test drive yet, right?
With the traditional Hawaiian canoe dedication you have planned, I see everything that has happend as a lot of bad distractions come dedication time.
My guess, is that this isn't the first, nor the last wa'a you are going to build.
Myself, I just wouldn't want any bad thoughts cropping up about the boat later on.
Just my thoughts bruhda.

(You could always rebuild it later on, after time heals all the mental wounds)

Just Curious,
What type of shop space do have over there, on the island?
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Dean in Eureka, CA

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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:36 pm

Hi Kent, you could try contacting one of the canoe repair shops listed on the "Wood canoe hertige association" website. There is one listed in North Carolina: http://www.wcha.org/buildsupply/us/nc.html . You can find others through the wcha website.

If you attempt the repairs yourself, you could make patches shaped like fish, birds, flowers, etc.... to make it look like art work instead of patch work.

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KARKAUAI
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Post by KARKAUAI » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:25 pm

Aloha, Glen & Dean,
Mahalo for your thoughts. I'm sure it'll be MONTHS before I find out what kind of settlement the trucking co. is willing to make, so I will probably go ahead and start rebuilding this spring unless I think I can do a really nice repair job myself after I see it up close and personal. If the truckers resist, I'll threaten their first born and parents and everyone else they hold dear. I really don't have any concerns about the canoe's mojo if it can be repaired to suit my taste, Dean, and would hate to scrap it. As far as my shop space goes, it's in Hickory, NC, not in Kauai. I don't have anything or anyplace on island to do the repairs, and only spend a couple of months here each winter...my wife wouldn't think it was too nice to coop up in a shop during the whole vacation anyway. In Hky, the shop's barely big enough to get the canoe from corner to corner, and no place to store it while working on another one.

Glen, Mahalo for the wcha website...the one guy in NC is only about an hour's drive from Hickory...I emailed him today.
A hui ho,
Kent

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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Well, good luck and you know where to find me if you need help.

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Todd Bradshaw
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Post by Todd Bradshaw » Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:05 am

I wouldn't waste too much time trying to find out what exactly happened to the boat because the chances of getting a straight answer are very poor. You will likely never get to talk to anyone who knows the real story or even anyone who knows anyone who knows the real story. Back when I was a dealer we occasionally had canoes shipped common carrier and about half of them were seriously damaged or destroyed in the process. We would get a crate or big cardboard box with two holes the size of fork lift tines all the way through the box and the boat! These were bad enough that someone obviously had to go get help to un-skewer the damned thing and they would just send it through as if nothing happened. The management would just say "We're dealing with Teamsters here and there isn't much we can do other than pay the claim and hope they do better next time."

They always paid and I can't remember it ever taking too long, but it seemed like such a waste just because somebody was too careless to do their job properly. I seriously doubt you'll get more than the insured value, but imagine you'll get all of that. To do so, you'll probably have to let them have the broken hull. They'll haul it away and try to sell it (big shock for the guy who buys it, patches it and then tries to paddle it without amas). If you keep the hull your pay-out will likely be adjusted downward, since it's hard to convince insurance adjusters that something is totaled if you both know that you intend to keep it and repair it.

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KARKAUAI
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Post by KARKAUAI » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:54 pm

Just what I need to hear. At least it won't be as much of a shock now that I know what to expect.
A hui ho,
Kent

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