Seat Placement

[Bernie in Illinois]

Extrapolating the Redbird seat positions from Canoecraft drawing page 59, the distance from the seat centers to the center of the canoe are 54" for the stern, and 34.28" for the bow. My original plan was to use Gilpatrick style seats with an adjustable bow seat. This means that the canoe, although symmetric in hull design, can no longer be paddled both ways. The mottly crew that will be paddling this canoe vary widely in size and weight. And, it looks like the heavier paddler, who of course has the longest legs, will have to ride the bow to maintain slightly stern heavy trim.

My questions are: just exactly how much stern heavy trim is best?, how well has the seat positioning recommended in Canoecraft worked out for Redbird owners?, has anyone paddled the Redbird solo?

I'm starting to think that a simple rectangular shape seat allows for more flexibility, especially the ability to paddle both ways.

[Rick]

I'll leave it to the Redbird builders to comment on whether the seat postions were suitable or not, but an adjustable bow seat is more typically added onto asymmetrical designs because the bow section is narrower, relative to the rest of the hull and makes the trim more sensitive to loading and center of gravity. This picture shows the proper trim in the waterline relative to the hull for one design, you can see that a small amount of trim change fore or aft can alter the submerged portion of the bow quite a bit:

http://www.greenval.com/cirrus.html

Symmetricals similarly are usually trimmed slighlly stern-heavy to track a little better than when running dead level, but they are less sensitive, since there's no difference in the volumes fore and aft. So my choice would be to go with standard seats and adjust trim by shifting loads around, and still be able to go solo. Although the solo paddler probably won't win any races in a canoe that large, it's good to have that option.

If you're worried about weight differences creating trim problems, you could move the seats in closer to the center, reducing the moments and potential trim problems. My guess would be that the seat positions as indicated on the plans will be fine most of the time, again, I'll let the Redbirders comment on that.

Something I'm working on right now for my Huron is an easily removable extension for the bow seat so I can paddle trimmed more properly going solo and empty. Just drop it onto the gunnels and seat frame and the seat edge is brought closer in to the center by about eight inches. There may be some improvement in glide and paddling efficiency, this still remains to be seen when used since everything is frozen solid up here right now..

There's always the option of testing seat positions with plywood cutouts and clamps as well, good luck!

Rick

[Doug Carey]

I admit that I am neither a mathematician or really good with numbers, but, I am very confused about how to calculate the IDEAL seat placement based on the formula in the Canoe Craft book..........just how does one solve a math problem when there are two (2) variables............ie. "A" and "B"
I have a PROSPECTOR canoe that I am trying to finish off and about all that I know is that the canoe is 16' 1" long and that I know the weight of my wife (bowsman) and my weight (sternsman)
Any advise would be greatly apprciated.
d.c.

[Glen Smith]

Figure out how much leg room you need for the bow paddler to locate the front of the bow seat. Measure from the front edge of the bow seat to the canoe center and multiply by the bow paddler's weight. Divide this number by the stern paddler's weight and you will obtain the distance from the canoe center to the forward edge of the stern seat.

[Doug Carey]

I really appreciate the suggestions...............Your ideas make much more sense than what I was trying to figure out.
p.s. I have been reading other crafters suggestions for and against making the front seat frame adjustable............is this an important feature when in my case only my wife and I will be paddling our Prospector?
thanks again, Glen

[Glen Smith]

A sliding bow seat is not recommended in a symmeyrical canoe like the Prospector because the supporting structure will not allow you to paddle solo fron the bow seat facing the stern.

[Tom in MN]

I would throw out the math and the formulas and do it this way. Place the stern seat as far back as you can get it and install it. Leave the bow seat out and take the canoe out with a temporary seat (crate, box, stack of cushions, etc) and have your wife get in the bow and you in the stern. Paddle around, look at it, move the temp seat around until you find the position that is best from a tracking, paddling, handlig, etc standpoint. When you find the best location, have your wife place a mark on the gunnels where the front seat would go and that is where you put it.

If you think you want to use the boat as a solo facing the stern from the bow seat, you may have to do the same with the temp seat, then try and find the place that works best for both. You may have to compromise and put it somewhere in the middle.

I have done this with a coule of canoes and I like the bow seat a little forward, although this reduces the leg room for the bow paddler, it works better solo to have the seat a little closer to the bow. Obviously this depends on the weight of the paddlers. My partners are usually my kids, so with their light weight, the bow seat trims better closer to the bow, and they have plenty of leg room being smaller.

[Doug Carey]

Well I did try the idea of getting my wife to sit down on a mock-up of the front seat and relative placement to the bulkhead that we are installing, and from that decided where to locate her seat.
I then used that dimension to insert into the formula in the canoecraft book, and guess what?
No matter what dimension I tried, the rear seat always ended up being exactly the same spacing (relative to the front seat) from the centre line of the hull.
After spending QUITE some time with that, I called a friend of mine who has a NOVA CRAFT 16' Prospector with almost exactly the same proportions as my cedar strip Prospector, and I tried the same measurements that his seats were located by.
It worked!!!!!!!!
I have now proceded to layout the inwales so that I could go ahead and cut out the scuppers.
I am pleased with this method after all was said and done.
Thanks anyways Glen...........
Doug C.