Stern paddle design?

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stonehollow
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:07 am
Location: Minnesota

Stern paddle design?

Post by stonehollow »

I'm going to make a single blade paddle. I almost always paddle stern, and have used a beavertail style paddle for many years - it seems to work for me just fine. My inclination is to make a paddle that pretty much is the same design. I'm 5'10', fairly strong with an arm span of 6'. The paddle I'm comfortable with is about 64" in length. What are the typical characteristics of paddles for stern paddlers - are there any?
Arne
Rick
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 9:23 am
Location: Bancroft, Ontario

Post by Rick »

Stonehollow,

Will you be paddling Canadian style or Minnesota-style hit-and-switch? Going Canadian, paddling on one side mostly, sometimes means that the stern paddler needs a longer blade for control strokes, while the bow paddler mainly provides power forward... so the bow paddler could have a wider, more powerful blade. But paddling styles vary so much from canoe to canoe that this might not apply at all to you. A bow paddler could also use a bent to add on power strokes, especially if sitting.

If the paddle you're using now is comfortable and efficient, it makes sense to build another. I used a favorite cherry Cree paddle for thirty years before it started to split and weaken, so last winter I used the basic outline to build a thinner, more flexible and slightly lighter version out of ash. I like the new version over the old, the increased flex increases comfort and the thinner blade grabs the water more efficiently on control strokes.

Experimenting with lighter, stronger, thinner and more flexible woods could improve upon your current fave... just a thought.
canoeblderinmt
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 pm
Location: Butte, MT

Post by canoeblderinmt »

Stone,
I am almost exactly your dimensions and paddle the stern with a 63" paddle. I like the extra length for draw and Canadian strokes. Do you paddle rivers or lakes, or both? How long are your outings, hour jaunts or 5 day trips? You'll probably end up with several paddles and use them as the situation and your mood demand.

If you are much stronger than your bow paddler (as in my case), you might want to go with a thinner blade to help balance out the force equation and ease your need for correction on every stroke, unless you are pounding down Level III whitewater, then get a big fat blade. Start with a beaver or otter tail design (everyone should have at least one), but why not go ahead and make a voyager (thin, long blade), a white water pattern, and even try a bent shaft. I have paddled bent shaft in both bow and stern, they work just fine in either position. If you paddle solo, you will want a shorter paddle, probably around 54", as you will most likely be kneeling and heeled over and therefore very close to the water. As I observed paddling solo last night, a longer paddle will leave the shaft in the water, which causes drag, noise and splashes. Switching to a 54" stopped this and was more comfortable.

Happy paddling,

Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
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stonehollow
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:07 am
Location: Minnesota

Paddle answers

Post by stonehollow »

Almost all our paddling is done on lakes, typically 5-7 day trips. I'm not sure about the Canadian vs Minnesota "style". I taught canoeing as a Boy Scout councillor way back when, so I know (and use) the "J" when necessary. Mostly I just angle the paddle for sort of a continous "J" if it's needed for conditions. I only switch when my bowman says he's had enough on that side, not for steering.

My usual bowman is also pretty strong - he has a homemade Voyageur style paddle. I do like the control I get with a wide bladed paddle. It can be used to great effect when you're fighting the waves on Bayley Bay.
Arne
AlanWS
Posts: 209
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:30 pm
Location: Shorewood, WI

Post by AlanWS »

I think a longer paddle is good for the stern for traditional paddling, and if you are comfortable with yours, copying it sounds like an excellent idea. The height of your seat would figure into the paddle length if you were to follow a formula.

The "Minnesota style" is a racing style developed in Minnesota where both paddlers go for broke and don't worry about correction as they paddle, simply switching sides often to zigzag toward their goal. It seems the epitome of bad form, but apparently it wins races. I haven't seen it used much in wilderness lake canoeing, where aesthetics, comfort, and tradition count for more than raw speed, but it could be catching on.

I think most Minnesotans (I still consider myself one) do paddle traditionally, and don't call it Canadian. It was common in both places long before either Canada or the US existed.
Alan
canoeblderinmt
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 pm
Location: Butte, MT

Post by canoeblderinmt »

The Canadian Stroke to which I refer I learned from Bill Mason, in his DVD "Path of the Paddle". In a "J", the steering is done with the power face turned outward at the end of the stroke. With the Canadian, the correction is made by pulling up on the blade during the recovery phase of the stroke. I usually "pry" it off the gunwhale, but this is NOT a goon stroke, the motion is upward in the water, while moving forward in recovery. It's easier when you see it done than trying to explain it in writing. It is an elegant and smooth stroke, though probably best used for cruising under fairly benign conditions, as it is a slow stroke.

Stonehollow, Mason refers to the stroke you describe "a continious J" as the "Pitch". I am learning it also and it is a fast, though tiring stroke. I recommend the DVD for your information and enjoyment. Bryan Hansel has a link to a place where you can buy it posted somewhere on this site.

Greg

PS: Credit where credit is due: I was re-reading the posts in the "Paddle Technique" forum, and it is Snowman that provided the link to the Bill Mason DVD's.
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
Snowman
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:21 pm
Location: Gatineau, QC

Post by Snowman »

Greg,

Glad you had a chance to check out Bill Mason's DVD(s). I hope you find them useful and inspirational.


Snowman
Snowman back East
canoeblderinmt
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 pm
Location: Butte, MT

Post by canoeblderinmt »

Snowman,
I just LOVE those videos. I jokingly refer to them as my "Canoe Porn" with my fiancee. I can just watch them over and over, and I pick up more things every time. So much so that I'm going to build a 16' Prospector this winter and try it solo on some whitewater here in MT. So thanks ever so much for the referral.

Do you miss the South? We're 9 degrees F this AM in Butte, Montana, but beautiful and clear. The rivers haven't covered over yet, and if it weren't hunting season, I'd be floating for sure. Next year, a buddy and I are going to canoe hunt the Missouri Breaks, up in the north of the state. We'll see if the G'White can handle two hunters and an elk....

Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
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pawistik
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:20 pm
Location: Saskatoon, SK

Post by pawistik »

canoeblderinmt wrote: We'll see if the G'White can handle two hunters and an elk....
Does the elk paddle stern or does he prefer the center? What are the paddle design considerations for an elk?

Those really are great videos aren't they - 30 years old but the info and effects are great.

Cheers,
Bryan
canoeblderinmt
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:04 pm
Location: Butte, MT

Post by canoeblderinmt »

Well Bryan, as you probably know, elk are headstrong, often troublesome animals who don't work all that well together, especially the bulls. My last paddling experience with an elk was a disaster. First, he wanted to be in the bow, but then lost interest and started pawing and thrashing around, putting several holes in the hull with his sharp hooves and even a few antler gouges in the sides. After I beat him soundly with my 63" stern paddle, he settled down in the center, alternately bugling and rubbing his antlers on the bow paddlers paddle as he ended his stroke. Next time, I'll bring along a paddle to fit his antlers and duct tape his hooves!

Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
Snowman
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:21 pm
Location: Gatineau, QC

Post by Snowman »

Greg,

Do I miss the south - yes. I am happy where I am - yes.

Life is good and I have nothing to complain about. Life will ge even better when my new house is finished and I can outfit my new shop - the first time I will have a work area that I can call a shop that does not have to be set up and cleaned up before and after each work session. Also, when the house is finished, I can get my stuff out of storage and hopefuly get in paddle or two before I need an icebreaker. :smile


Snowman
Snowman back East
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