I think I understand the physics behind a bent shaft paddle and that most bent shaft paddles are 14 degrees.
Why are they 14 degrees?
Are they primarily for bow use?
Are bent shaft paddles recommendated for solo paddlers?
How are they for steering (a canoe)?
I've heard that bent shaft paddles for solo paddlers should have a bend of about 5-10 dergees?
All the best and Happy Holidays,
Doug
Bent Shaft Paddle
Bent Shaft Paddle
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
Bent shafts seem to be used best by racing paddlers who need to sit-and-switch constantly, with no energy-wasting corrective strokes... just switch sides and apply power. Recreational paddlers who sit might find bents more efficient than kneelers because of the difference in body position. Tandem paddlers might also find bents more efficient, since less correction is needed, while solo paddlers might prefer straight shafts when paddling one side only. Paddlers who always need to be at the front of the group will also prefer bents and will get to pitch their tents in the best places.
It also depends on what you've gotten used to over the years. I developed my stroke with straight shafts by watching Ralph Bice in Algonquin grouse about how people didn't have a clue about proper paddling technique while he paddled around solo. His may have been a C-stroke although he didn't actually identify it. Stroke types are covered in Bill Mason's book Path of the Paddle and others. I've gotten used to straight Cree paddles over the years with a kneeling stroke, and a bent shaft now feels unnatural, especially when solo. But others swear by bents and wouldn't have it any other way... whatever's most comfortable.
It also depends on what you've gotten used to over the years. I developed my stroke with straight shafts by watching Ralph Bice in Algonquin grouse about how people didn't have a clue about proper paddling technique while he paddled around solo. His may have been a C-stroke although he didn't actually identify it. Stroke types are covered in Bill Mason's book Path of the Paddle and others. I've gotten used to straight Cree paddles over the years with a kneeling stroke, and a bent shaft now feels unnatural, especially when solo. But others swear by bents and wouldn't have it any other way... whatever's most comfortable.
bents
Bent shafts are more efficient because at the most powerful part of your stroke(both arms straight and twisting your torso to add power) the blade is perpendicular to the surface. This means that at the most powerful part of your stroke you are not lifting water out of the lake(as with a straight shaft). If you do not have a good paddling technique and are not using your torso to power your stroke you may as well use a straight shaft, because a bent is not going to improve anything.
12-14 degrees happens to match the structure of most humans. Lesser bends are sometimes used in specialty paddles for freestyle techniques where draws and prys are used.
Hit and Switch(or Sit and switch) paddlers use bents in both bow and stern. Travel direction changes and adjustments are accomplished by switching sides for the most part. For folks who paddle a more traditional style of staying on one side and switching occasionally to relieve muscles bents are used mostly in the bow. Bents do not work well with the J-stroke and draw strokes. However for those of you who use the traditional Canadian stern stroke called the pitch or Canadian stroke, the bents work quite well.
I have recently been on a ten day solo and took both a bent and a straight. I found a very comfortable technique for solo paddling using the pitch stroke mostly and alternating that with the hit and switch style and another that developed during the trip. It consisted a normal power stroke and at the end rest the shaft on the gunnel and let the blade drag like a rudder. It is a slow and deliberate stroke and very restful. While ruddering like that I could also lean away from the paddle side, rocking the canoe a bit and causing the paddle(held stationary) to do a little pry. I would rock the canoe back to the paddle side during the recovery. The rhythmic motion is very pleasant, especially in a canoe with a long glide. I found that I used this most at the end of the day when I was getting tired. Between the 3 techniques I could easily do 18-20 miles a day or more if there were no portages. I used the straight shaft in moving water and some small rapids where a solid draw stroke is convenient. I disagree about the lesser angle for solo bents. I think 12-14 degrees still works fine.
12-14 degrees happens to match the structure of most humans. Lesser bends are sometimes used in specialty paddles for freestyle techniques where draws and prys are used.
Hit and Switch(or Sit and switch) paddlers use bents in both bow and stern. Travel direction changes and adjustments are accomplished by switching sides for the most part. For folks who paddle a more traditional style of staying on one side and switching occasionally to relieve muscles bents are used mostly in the bow. Bents do not work well with the J-stroke and draw strokes. However for those of you who use the traditional Canadian stern stroke called the pitch or Canadian stroke, the bents work quite well.
I have recently been on a ten day solo and took both a bent and a straight. I found a very comfortable technique for solo paddling using the pitch stroke mostly and alternating that with the hit and switch style and another that developed during the trip. It consisted a normal power stroke and at the end rest the shaft on the gunnel and let the blade drag like a rudder. It is a slow and deliberate stroke and very restful. While ruddering like that I could also lean away from the paddle side, rocking the canoe a bit and causing the paddle(held stationary) to do a little pry. I would rock the canoe back to the paddle side during the recovery. The rhythmic motion is very pleasant, especially in a canoe with a long glide. I found that I used this most at the end of the day when I was getting tired. Between the 3 techniques I could easily do 18-20 miles a day or more if there were no portages. I used the straight shaft in moving water and some small rapids where a solid draw stroke is convenient. I disagree about the lesser angle for solo bents. I think 12-14 degrees still works fine.
I've also used C-strokes, aka pitch strokes, or sit-and switch, and whatever else that worked during solo trips to get about the same mileage per day. An afternoon's paddle might be about 10-12 miles with 5-10 done during the morning, depending on how early the start is.
I wonder whether the pitch stroke you describe is the same as the C-stroke used here in Canada. Bryan Hansel describes the C-stroke here about 3/4 down, from what I have seen, the pitch stroke's pretty much the same:
http://www.roguepaddler.com/solopad.htm
Here are some animations showing stroke motion, the one labelled " Inside Turn with J Stroke" is what I would understand to be what both the C and pitch strokes are all about. There might be variations, some carry out the draw portion of the stroke in towards the hull sharply and aggressively with the pitched blade adding to the forward thrust and speed.
http://www.gregcons.com/canoe/techniques_strokes.htm
The Cree paddles that I use have fairly flexible blades about 30 inches long. During a forward stroke, they will bend back some amount depending on how much power is applied, mimicking a bent paddle but in a curved form. So maybe the reason I started using them is because they behave like bents some of the time.
I wonder whether the pitch stroke you describe is the same as the C-stroke used here in Canada. Bryan Hansel describes the C-stroke here about 3/4 down, from what I have seen, the pitch stroke's pretty much the same:
http://www.roguepaddler.com/solopad.htm
Here are some animations showing stroke motion, the one labelled " Inside Turn with J Stroke" is what I would understand to be what both the C and pitch strokes are all about. There might be variations, some carry out the draw portion of the stroke in towards the hull sharply and aggressively with the pitched blade adding to the forward thrust and speed.
http://www.gregcons.com/canoe/techniques_strokes.htm
The Cree paddles that I use have fairly flexible blades about 30 inches long. During a forward stroke, they will bend back some amount depending on how much power is applied, mimicking a bent paddle but in a curved form. So maybe the reason I started using them is because they behave like bents some of the time.
pitch stroke
Neither of the strokes described in the websites is a pitch(as I have been taught it). The pitch stroke was describe to me as stroke for the stern paddler to compensate for the turn away from the stern paddlers side, just like a J-stroke. The pitch stroke, however has no J to it. It is simply a forward stroke during which the upper hand cocks toward the center of the boat setting the paddle at a pitch, or angle to the direction of travel. Power is continued through this part of the stroke. I I I I \ \ \ \ \ You can start the pitched part of the stroke at any point in the stroke depending on how much compensating you need. The bottom hand most keep the paddle from pinning against the hull and thus works best when that arm is straight as it should be through the power part of the stroke. It does the same thing as a J-stroke without the uncomfortable shift in paddle direction of the J. I'm an old fashioned paddler and some of these strokes are not taught these days, but I always like to have a large number of tools in the bag.
I rarely have to use a C-stroke paddling solo. I see it used in freestyle-type paddling, however.
I rarely have to use a C-stroke paddling solo. I see it used in freestyle-type paddling, however.
We're paddling the same way at times, I think - I probably vary the strokes more or less automatically whenever necessary, eg. adding some J to the finish of the pitch stroke you described, to add to the rate of turn. Pitch was described to me as changing the angle of the blade, either during the power part of the stroke parallel to the keel line, or during the front part of the "C" stroke for more power. They all work, maybe I should read a book again to get the terms straight.
Getting back to the bents, another thing that has kept me from checking them out more is their price. From my experience with straights, having two paddles of different length can help to change things around a bit when needed. So I carry two Cree straights, 65 and 67 inches. The extra two inches does make a difference when more power is needed, in wind or waves, or when sitting higher up and taking a break. The shorter paddle is more comfortable generally and better in shallows.
Carrying two bents would be too expensive and I'm not sure I'd have the same level of control or comfort. I'm also not a fan of wide-bladed paddles (which most bents seem to be) and the narrower, flexible ones just seem to be more efficient over the long haul. It might be worth building one or two bents to see if some greater amount of time spent paddling with those would be worth it.
Getting back to the bents, another thing that has kept me from checking them out more is their price. From my experience with straights, having two paddles of different length can help to change things around a bit when needed. So I carry two Cree straights, 65 and 67 inches. The extra two inches does make a difference when more power is needed, in wind or waves, or when sitting higher up and taking a break. The shorter paddle is more comfortable generally and better in shallows.
Carrying two bents would be too expensive and I'm not sure I'd have the same level of control or comfort. I'm also not a fan of wide-bladed paddles (which most bents seem to be) and the narrower, flexible ones just seem to be more efficient over the long haul. It might be worth building one or two bents to see if some greater amount of time spent paddling with those would be worth it.
Greetings and thanks for your help,
but ...
Are bent shaft paddles recommendated for solo paddlers?
How are they for steering (a canoe)?
I've heard that bent shaft paddles for solo paddlers should have a bend of about 5-10 dergees?
(is there a paradime for 14 degrees)
Thanks,
Doug
but ...
Are bent shaft paddles recommendated for solo paddlers?
How are they for steering (a canoe)?
I've heard that bent shaft paddles for solo paddlers should have a bend of about 5-10 dergees?
(is there a paradime for 14 degrees)
Thanks,
Doug
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
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Bryan Hansel
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Grand Marais, MN
- Contact:
This quote is from ZREs website. http://www.zre.comMost people are learning that bent shaft canoe paddles are out performing straight paddles. You have to be careful on selecting the proper angle of your paddle. ZRE uses a 12 degree bend as their standard angle for several reasons. A 12 degree bent shaft is a perfectly balanced paddle that will allow your top and bottom arms to work equally.
Straight paddles favor your top arm power and don't have the proper angle coming through the water as the bent shafts do. Bent shafts clear the bow of the canoe easier when switching sides as the blade is angled upward.
Your back will also be in a better position to get maximum power into your stoke. You will be able to increase your stroke rate easier as your arms and back will be in the proper position when you start your sprint. The 14+ degrees work well but it favors your bottom arm and forearms.
I've never heard that 5-10 degrees is better for solo paddlers, and I've never tried a bend of that style when out solo paddling.
I highly recommend bent shaft paddles both for solo paddling and tandem paddling and the main reason that I do so, is that the blade of the paddle stays more perpendicular to the water than a straight shaft does through the entire paddle stroke. When a blade is at an angle less than perpendicular to the surface of the water, that blade actually slips in the water, which in turns sucks the power out of a stroke. A well-trained paddler can achieve a perpendicular stroke with a straight shaft paddle, but most paddlers have a sloppy forward stroke and will benefit from the paddle doing some of the work. So, if you take this little bit of information and do a quick stroke with a straight shaft you will find that the blade is only perpendicular to the water in about 25% of the stroke, but the bent is perpendicular for the whole stroke. Go ahead and try this while sitting on your coffee table. :) This yields an increase in efficiency of somewhere around 40-50%, which means that you go further for less work.
If you are having trouble picturing this imagine a fence post in the ground. Your job is to pull it out of the ground. If the fence post is perpendicular to the ground and you pull back on it, it is harder to pull out then if the post is less than perpendicular to the ground. Pulling on the later example will allow the post to slip out of the its hole easier than the former example.
For turning, some people have trouble adjusting to a bent shaft if they've paddled with a straight shaft all their life, but when I switched, I didn't have any problems, and find that I have to work less on prys and j-strokes than with a straight. Your mileage may differ. My significant other can't stand using a bent shaft, and I have to con her into using it all the time.
Here is a personal story about bent shaft use. We were river paddling and I was soloing. My friends in a tandem where beating me the first day, when both were using bents, then they lost one of the paddles, and the second day, they used one bent and one straight. That second day, I didn't have any problems keeping up with them. The boats were Bells, a Wildfire, and a Northwind.
Rick, thanks for linking to my article! It can also be found at my personal site: http://www.nessmuking.com
The best I can say is try one out. I'm sure that you will like it. I find that I can build a paddle for about $10 to $15, and if you can build a canoe you can build a paddle, so if you can't demo one, build one.
: I hope this helps.Bryan, thank you for your elegant (above) post. As usual I've enjoyed reading your post. Your simplification of the bent shaft paddle idea, has made it understandable.
Doug
Doug
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
Thanks to all, I am presently attempting to make a "Viper" bent shaft paddle (see prior post in this forum). Making it with a slightly less than a 14 degree bend. I've attempted two other bent shaft paddles with about ten other straight shaft paddles, of various styles, in the past. This paddle will be using all the paddle making techniques I have. Thinking of making it with some combination of ash, walnut, cherry, basswood and cedar.
Doug
Doug
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
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Bryan Hansel
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Grand Marais, MN
- Contact:
That should be a nice looking paddle, I can't wait to see a picture of the finished product. If you want to document the process and write up a small article about your experience, I'd be happy to post it on my site for you, if you don't have the webspace.
Happy Building!
Bryan
Rick - Thanks for the kind words about the Bell article. One of the guys at Bell is going to show it to David Yost when he visits the factory this spring. I'm holding my breath.
Happy Building!
Bryan
Rick - Thanks for the kind words about the Bell article. One of the guys at Bell is going to show it to David Yost when he visits the factory this spring. I'm holding my breath.