17' 0" Freedom

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Patricks Dad
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Warrenville, Illinois

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Patricks Dad » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:14 pm

Here's my foam (used the inside of the strip canoe as a form to bend the foam....
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Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Jim Dodd
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Location: Iowa

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Jim Dodd » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:22 am

Looks great Randy !

Guessing the foam is 1/2" thick ?

Where did you get the foam ?

And lastly was it easily formed ?

Stripper guy from another form sent me a small piece of 1/4" foam, that seemed plenty stif for the bottom, and ribs.

Lovin your composite builds !

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

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Patricks Dad
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Location: Warrenville, Illinois

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Patricks Dad » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:02 am

The foam is 3/8" thick. It looks thicker in the pictures because I have beveled the edges ~30 degrees. I set up a jig on my table saw to cut fairly consistent bevels.

It's pretty stiff stuff. I bought it from Fibre Glast
https://www.fibreglast.com/product/Viny ... nsity/Foam
It comes in a couple different weights and sheets are 48" x 32"

I stole my wife's toaster oven out of the kitchen and used it to bend the ribs. It only took a few (maybe 10) seconds to heat the foam enough to make the bend. I bent by hand on my way to the hull and fine tuned the bend in the hull. I think they will glue in fairly well. That's an exercise for next weekend hopefully.

The larger sheets for the football area were heated a bit from only the top side with a hot air gun to get the to curve (along with the boxes of ceramic tile as weights).

To install the foam, I expect that using the cross-section forms from the original build and a strap around the hull and each form will hold them in place to make good contact with the composite hull.

With the foam being 3/8" thick it's less than 1/8" thicker than the wood hull (plus glass) thickness so it should line up pretty well (the foam will basically replace the wood hull (the composite hull was built outside the wood hull).
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Jim Dodd
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Location: Iowa

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Jim Dodd » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:07 pm

Thanks Randy !
When I epoxy my Cedar inserts, I place 4 mil plastic over the insert, and then pour sand on top, to weight it down.

I'm guessing I use 150# of sand, for a solo. It works
.
Yes, I brace the hull, so it doesn't sag !

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

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Patricks Dad
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Location: Warrenville, Illinois

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Patricks Dad » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:20 pm

Yeah, I was thinking of pouring sand into it but was worried about it sagging given the hull is pretty thin/flexible right now. I only have 2 supports right now (may add more) but will try my forms strapped in first.
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Patricks Dad
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Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Patricks Dad » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:02 pm

Got all the foam "installed" into one of the composite hulls last Saturday and put on the last layer of Kevlar on Sunday. Wetting out the kevlar was quite an experience. For every foot of linear distance down the centerline, the sides needed to consume about 13" of kevlar (due to the curve of the hull but more importantly to go up and down the ribs). I quickly concluded that putting it all on in one piece wasn't going to work so I cut the sides out after the 2nd rib and before the last rib and put the panels back in as separate pieces where they could use as much length as needed to cover the ribs. Even then there were difficulties at the sheerline above the ribs... But I think it will float. The whole ordeal took 6 hours.


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Last edited by Patricks Dad on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Cruiser
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:21 am
Location: Bowmanville, Ontario

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Cruiser » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 pm

Wow Randy, one of the cleanest layups I have seen done ......


Brian

Snowman
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Location: Gatineau, QC

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Snowman » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:40 am

Hi Randy,

It is looking great!
Snowman back East

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Jim Dodd
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Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Jim Dodd » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:43 pm

I have to agree with the others ! It looks great !
That should provide enough flotation also !

Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

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Patricks Dad
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Location: Warrenville, Illinois

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Patricks Dad » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:02 pm

Called it quits on this one Saturday. Ready to get on with finishing the 2nd composite hull from the same original hull. I hope to drop some weight on the next one (thinner foam, lighter gunwales, seats, yoke)....

I registered with the US Coast Guard as a boat manufacture so I can assign my own Hull Identification Numbers - Son's and Pfeifer Canoes (SNP)

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Corporate logo :)
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Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Cruiser » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:22 am

O.o Nice job Randy .... Did you get a weight? What did you pick for gunnels? Are the thwarts shop made? Is that aluminum trim?

Inquiring minds want to know, lol


Brian

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Patricks Dad
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Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Patricks Dad » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:05 am

The gunwales are aluminum from Wenonah. I was amazed how heavy they are (7 pounds). Thwart / hand holds are black anodized aluminum tubing from Savage River canoe works. Seats from Edscanoe.com (also quite heavy). Yoke and pads from a local paddle shop but I think they sourced from Eds as well).

It weighs a ton - 60 pounds but indestructible. I'm giving it to my brother. :wink I think I can take at least 10 pounds off the next one (I'll keep that one).
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Cruiser
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Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Cruiser » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:56 pm

In my latest build(s) I am finding that trim is one of the places we add a lot of weight that just doesn't need to be there, if we plan carefully.

I am surprised at the weight of aluminum trim ans am glad you shared that tidbit ... but the boat is one of the best composite copies I have seen done so far.

Any idea of what the master cedar version will weigh? Mine cam in at 51 I think.

Brian

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Patricks Dad
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Location: Warrenville, Illinois

Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Patricks Dad » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:23 pm

I haven't weighed the cedar hull but low 50's sounds reasonable for a final weight.

I'm hoping to get the 2nd composite version below 50 (45 would be a win for me). I'm looking at a carbon fiber sleeve around a piece of white cedar or maybe foam to create a uniwale for gunwales. Seats and yoke can be much lighter. Foam in the football area will be thinner and less dense but go up the turn of the bilge a bit farther. No ribs (except amidship below the yoke). Inside kevlar will be 2.2 oz instead of 5oz.
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Cruiser
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Re: 17' 0" Freedom

Post by Cruiser » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:27 pm

I used a 3/8" x 3/4" cherry gunnel on my mine and I think that could be reduced to 3/8" x 5/8" with an inside bevel ... a couple of lightweight decks and you could be right in the 3 pound total mark.

When you consider the weight of the epoxy and materials to wrap cedar ... I really wonder how much is left to save there, for the considerable extra expense, may be worth some calculations.

I look forward to seeing the second composite and what you do with it ... I am stewing on a composite build, but haven't got all the details straight in my mind yet, so following these builds is fueling ideas for mine.

Brian

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