15' 0" Hiawatha

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Arctic
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Location: Harrietsville, Ontario
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Post by Arctic » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:43 pm

:smile

OK, so my bubble problem has been dealt with. After cutting out the bubbled areas, I went on to fill with epoxy and then applied the second coat over the entire hull- I was pleased that almost all of the affected areas seem to have blended in nicely. I think with sanding and varnish I can get them blended in even more.
It is not perfect- and that is OK- I am not aiming for perfection here- just want to do a good job and enjoy myself.

I feel the boat passes the three foot test (looks good when viewed from about three feet)- and while yes I do know where every little detail and imperfection is- I wont be losing any sleep over it at night. I put some recent photo's on the site- the one of the inside hull is the "three foot test" photo.
I guess what is important now is that I am personally pleased with things as they are and the work I have done.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b265/arctic971/

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying

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Arctic
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Location: Harrietsville, Ontario
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Post by Arctic » Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:50 am

Progress is slowly continuing,

I was able to clamp one of the outwales on the boat and make the sheer line bends- this was not easy though- I left the outwale longer than the boat to give me a wee bit more flexibility in bending, (I will trim it later on), there was a slight crack on one end where the grain ran out- but nothing that can't be easily filled with epoxy and easily covered with a finish. I expected that I might run into this problem, given that I am using cherry.
Along with using epoxy to fasten it to the boat I used 5/8" screws (from the inside) to re-inforce it, especially at the sheer- it all seems to have worked well so far. I will try the next outwale in a few days, then work on the inwlaes- although since I will be trimming them to the length of the boat- I don't know if I will have a tougher time making the bend-
I am not following the exact method in Canoecraft, this is so I can screw the inwales from the inside of the boat- through the Hull and into the outwales (for extra strength), and keep the outwales from having any screws visible on them, as I am not as concerned about having them visible on the inwales .
(Hope that made sense!)

Updated photo's on the photo site:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b265/arctic971/

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.

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mtpocket
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Post by mtpocket » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:22 am

Arctic,

In your pictures I noticed that you don't have any spreader strips in place to help hold the shape of the hull. While installing the outwales the hull will tend to narrow without them. The pressure the outwales exert on the hull will not only change the width of the hull but also the rocker. If you fail to secure the hull deminsions during installation of the outwales, you will not end up with the boat you had hoped for.

I understand your concern with the screws showing on the outwales. This can be hidden with wood plugs. Most builders install the inwales first, then the decks and finally the outwales. The length of the inwales and outwales can change signifcantly if the hull is not held to the proper width.

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Arctic
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Post by Arctic » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:11 pm

Thanks mtpocket for the info.

As I approach the final few stages of my project I have begun to reflect on how it has gone since I started last August. So here is my little rant about how things have gone for me so far.

Things that have gone well:
-Building the Strongback and Cutting out the forms
-Finding building materials
-Stripping the Hull
-Making & Bending the Stems
- Fiberglassing the bottom of the hull
-Installing the Outwales
- seeing the boat develop before my eyes and taking enjoyment in the process.

Things that could have gone better:
-Closing the Bottom- tighter fitting planks with less gaps to fill
-Fiberglassing the Inner Hull (lets not go back there!)
-Bending outwales to sheer- I have a few cracks to fill
Getting a little caught up in being a perfectionist -

Mark
Cantley, Quebec.
Last edited by Arctic on Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying

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Arctic
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Post by Arctic » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:30 pm

Cleaned up the edges of the hull a little and got the inwales clamped in place- what a huge visual difference the two sets of wales make when compared to just seeing the boat with the outside ones. Who would have thought there would be such a big difference in how things looked by two simple components.
Haven't made the bends yet- they are proving to be difficult- even with heat. My sheer is just too steep for this type of wood. Cherry, where grain becomes an issue.
I may get creative with my mitre saw and make some angled cuts and join the pieces where the sheer rises, then shape/smooth to give the appearance of a fair curve- still considering my option for this challenge.
Updated photo's on the site.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b265/arctic971/

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying

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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:38 pm

Mark, if you look at the end grain of the inwales is it running vertically or horizontally? It should be horizontal for easier bending. You could try steaming the last 2 or 3 feet at the ends of each inwale and even pre-bend them on a mold that you would make with 2" lumber cut to the same curve as the sheer line or maybe a bit over-curved.

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Patricks Dad
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Post by Patricks Dad » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:48 pm

Glen's right. Try getting the wood soaking wet and steaming it. You will be able to bend it easily on a form that matches the shape you are looking for.
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Arctic
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Post by Arctic » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:10 am

Thanks for the advice Glen and PD.
My main concern here is breakage- I am very close to that point with my bends- and rather than deal with a break, if that is what is to happen, I would rather control the outcome by way of angked cuts- not ideal, but preferable to a break.

But let me try this idea out on you:

If I use my table saw to cut a line down the centre of the wale say 2-3 feet, I will be bending two thinner sections of the wales, hopefully making for an easier bend, Once the bend is made I could clamp and epoxy the sections back together. A local builder reccomended this method for boats with high sheer lines, where bending wales is an issue.

What do you think?

Mark
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying

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Bud
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Post by Bud » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:33 am

Artic, making a kerf to help the bend should work very well. I wouldn't suggest using the tablesaw to make the cut, however, because of the blade thickness. I'd suggest using either a bandsaw or handsaw to make the cut. Same result, but less gap to fill where the cut ends.

Let us know how it turns out.

Bud
"Canoes don't tip. People just fall out of them!" Omer Stringer

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Patricks Dad
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Post by Patricks Dad » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:42 am

Putting a split in the end of the wale to make it easier to bend might work fine. You will need to contend with hiding the split after the piece is installed. I really however, think that bending the whole thing after steaming it is a better approach. The cherry gunwales on our Redbird (with lots of curve) bent very easily. We soaked them in water for 8 hours and steamed them for about an hour. It was a very straight forward process to bend them over a form we cut from a 2X6 (with a curve that was a bit tighter than the sheerline). When we were done, the wales fit quite nicely. The steaming process was really easy.

It's your canoe however and you of course are free to tackle this problem any way you feel would work best for you.
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Arctic
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Post by Arctic » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:12 am

PD,

How did you steam/soak them. The problem I have is that they are 15 feet long- I just don't have the eqipment/ space to deal with such a large piece of wood- did you just soak and steam the ends?- How well will just plain soaking work? My stem bending jig is only set up for pieces about 48" long at the most.

Mark
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying

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Patricks Dad
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Post by Patricks Dad » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:24 am

We soaked our gunwales (a pair at a time, one end at a time) in a PVC pipe about 10 feet long. We capped 1 end of the pipe, filled it with water and put the gunwales into the pipe and let them sit. Our steamer was also made from a PVC pipe. We only steamed the last 3 feet or so. Our steamer was set up outdoors using our barbeque grill as a heat source.


The pictures at the link below (starting around picture 60 or so) show our process...

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welc ... s2LJq1bMgW
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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Arctic
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Post by Arctic » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:14 pm

The Kerf cuts worked out great for me- no problems making the bends now, and easily clamped, epoxied and covered by the Decks- so no big issue with appearance.

I like the look of the cherry wood, but don't know if I will use it again fro gunwales- maybe it was the wood I had (very dry and short on grain in places) but I found I had a few cracks- nothing major and nothing a epoxy won't take care of- but I wonder if there is a better choice of wood that might be easier to work with?

Thanks for all the advice you guys- glad to know you're out there!
:wink

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying

Rick
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Post by Rick » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:14 am

Mark,

I had a white pine inwale snap when I was building my Huron... later on I read that WP isn't as resilient a wood as white spruce, so next time it'll be WS if I want a lightweight inwale.

Hardwoods that are resilient and bend well are white ash and yellow birch, although WA is usually used for gunwales. You can find out the physical properties of various woods here:

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/techmenu.html

Black cherry has a lower MOR (modulus of rupture) and WML (work to max load), both measures of toughness and the ability of the wood to take bending stresses.

If I were to do it all over again in a high-ended canoe like the Huron, I'd steam bend the outer 3-4 feet of the inwales and maybe the outwales, for an easier time when clamping and gluing.

:wink

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Arctic
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Post by Arctic » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:32 pm

Well, I am in the midst of making a tough decision. That being to paint or not paint my inside hull. I have been working in a garage under three 60 watt bulbs- I opened the main door today and got a look at the canoe in the bright winter light- the bottom is great- but the inside is another story. There are still minute air bubbles in places and craters where the bigger ones were- lots of epoxy runs as well. Tearing off the glass and starting over again is not an option for me- time and money considerations.

I was hoping that sanding the epoxy would blend things in and varnish would cover it up nicely- but I am beginning to have my doubts about that now. I was at the Hardware store last night and saw some marine paint- Varathane plastic enamel actually. It comes in a variety of colours and would probably cover up the mess I made pretty good.

Right now I am going to continue with the sanding and varnish - and see what results I get- then make a decision on weather or not to paint the inside. Not what I wanted to do with this boat- but I think I will be happier with a good crisp finished look as oppsed to having all my mistakes glaring in the light- I would dwell on them too much as I paddled the boat. I have seen some nice boats with painted hulls- both inside and outside- so I think I can still come off with something that looks decent. And on a positive note- the paint would give me a good deal of protection on the inside ( seeing the glass half-full!).

Any thoughts/advice on my idea to paint are welcomed and encouraged.

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying

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