17' 0" Nomad

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Woodchuck
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:56 am
Location: Garden City, MI

Crease in fiberglass...

Post by Woodchuck » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:19 pm

PROBLEM... I have a crease in the fiberglass! It was rolled but it's on one side about 2' back from the stem. It is not a sharp crease as it looks like it was rolled over when it was rolled? Canoecraft says you can't get out creases but there has to be some adhesion between the glass and the cedar to hold it down to some extent. What is the best way to handle this problem? I start to glass tomorrow morning so any quick reply is more than welcome.
CYA, Joe
:thinking :thinking :thinking
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Glen Smith
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Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada

Post by Glen Smith » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:26 pm

All I can say is to keep working at this area with a brush and a squeegee to try to keep the cloth down until the epoxy starts to kick and working it anymore would just make it worse. Do this area last and stay with it for a few hours.

Good luck!

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Woodchuck
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Location: Garden City, MI

Post by Woodchuck » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:58 pm

Thanks Glen, I got your reply at 10:50 pm and I will be in the sack at 11:00. I'm going to get up early and try and beat the heat so to speak. I will switch ends and do what you suggest and hope for the best...Thanks again...
CYA, Joe
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Woodchuck
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Bad day at the office...

Post by Woodchuck » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:55 pm

Well, a very long, hot, humid and tiring day with poor results but at least all three coats of epoxy are on the fiberglass.
I have two creases to deal with that did not go away with all my attempts and they are still visible and need work. In the stem transition area, I have air pockets that are caused by the glass not laying down in a corner. My brush fell apart and I have about 200 little bristles all over and finally, I used a litte foam roller for the third coat and now I have microscopic air bubbles all over. I can handle the runs and bristles with a scraper and sand out the air bubbles, I think, but I would appreciate how to get rid ot my other two problems, creases and stem air pockets. Do I cut them out and patch or what.
Thanks in advance, CYA, Joe
All of my past concerns turned out to be nothing but this operation kinda bit me on the butt!
:crying :crying :crying
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Woodchuck
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Location: Garden City, MI

Ongoing saga...

Post by Woodchuck » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:35 pm

Well today I started on the fiberglass repairs! I first used a scraper and it worked beautifully for the bristles, runs, tiny air bubbles but it was very slow so I then tried my Dewalt Random Orbital Sander with 220 grit paper.
I think it's a forgone conclusion that I will need another coat of epoxy in selective spots so orbital, here I go. This allowed me to really cover some ground and it really knocked down the bristles and air bubbles and with the white powder, it highlightled the runs and especially the crease and stem areas. I then went back to the scraper and worked on the runs with great success and even in the crease areas some success where I didn't have to go down to the glass.
I'm only about 1/4 done with this process so where do I have to go from here when I've finished all the "EASY" stuff?
My logic is to get all I can get and then put on a coat of epoxy on the creases or other areas that are down to galss to build up thickness on both sides and then scrape again after hardening. Does this make sense? Will the glass disappear again?
The stem transition areas are untouched as I haven't figured out what to do with them! Cut and replace? I'm just waiting for suggestions for this problem.
Some head way made...
CYA, Joe
:confused :frightened :embarassed
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Glen Smith
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Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada

Post by Glen Smith » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:02 pm

Hi Joe, I see you are still hacking away at it! I would probably continue to scrape and sand any areas that do not meet your approval but without seeing it up close and personal it is hard to advise. It would have been best to deal with the mess after the wetout coat then sand the entire surface and recoat. Applying extra coats of epoxy just adds up to more work in the finishing stages. If you get down to glass in any areas you can try to hand sand with wet paper with progressively finer grits up to the finest you have then apply another coat of epoxy. This presents the least risk of light refracting off the exposed glass strands and showing up.

Keep at it, you will see the end some day.

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Woodchuck
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Location: Garden City, MI

Glass Repairs...

Post by Woodchuck » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:51 pm

Hi Glen and any others that may want to chirp in...

Here is a photo of the hull after I sanded it from stem to stern and it looks good except for the creases and stems. No wetout problems and very uniform in color and texture.
Image
I have two crease areas that are much improved with the sanding and the following photo shows the worse of the two. It appears to be little holes with the glass showing and I'm going to try a little epoxy brushed on to cover them up. I hope it works!
Image
The next photo is the stem area and I'm going to try and wait for the epoxy to start setting up before applying some in the seam between the stem and the planking. Hopefully I can build up some epoxy to smooth out the junction where the glass did not adhere to the sharp corner.
Image
If these attempts work, I'm home free as these are the very worst of the problems and the rest are minor compared to what these photo's show.
I would appreciate any comments or ideas prior to me making any more mistakes. Currently, I don't see the need to put on another layer of epoxy as for the most part, it looks pretty good.

Thanks in advance,
Joe
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Woodchuck
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Photo's

Post by Woodchuck » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:09 pm

Hi Glen,

I checked my web site and the photo's are there and they are in the correct directory but they don't show on the forum. They do work on my website and in my html editor.

Help please... CYA, Joe
Last edited by Woodchuck on Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Glen Smith
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Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada

Post by Glen Smith » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:44 pm

Hi Joe, in the photo links and in the link posted in your last message you were missing the 17 after the last "nomad".

The photos now show on the Forum so perhaps you will obtain more responses. :wink

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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:06 pm

From the looks of the second photo there is epoxy dust worked into the weave from the sanding action. You can try cleaning this out with a toothbrush and toothpicks. Also, if you wet this area with water and the white spots become transparent, then applying epoxy or varnish would also make them dissappear.

In the third photo, you mention glass that didn't adhere. I would cut it out and apply one or two layers of bias-cut cloth strips over the stems extending 2 or 3 inches on either side of the stem. This would take care of the lifted glass problem and reinforce the stems.

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Woodchuck
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Location: Garden City, MI

Post by Woodchuck » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:00 pm

Thanks Glen...
Image: Interesting! The directory on MY computer is JMGWeb for my personal site and I use a sub directory of Nomad to store everything related to the Canoe stuff. On COMCAST, my ISP, the subdirectory is Nomad17 which I did not know. I thought they were both the same. GREAT EYE, Eh...

For the little holes and the sanding dust in the crease areas, great news, I will try that tomorrow, cross your fingers.

For the stems, I have a little more work to do on them but my thinking was just to coat with epoxy as they are actually 6 layers of 1/4" thick ash. I did not consider them to need the fibergalss for strength. Apparantley you think the structural strength of the glass is necessary. Humm... Anyway, what weight of bias glass should I get and will that stuff tuck in nicely between the stem and the planking or should I make a filet to round it out prior to glassing?
One more question, I used a sponge with water and then wiped with a towel to clean the hull of dust and I was wondering if a little soap in the water would help or hurt? Any opinions here, Oh Wise One...
CYA, Joe
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:15 pm

I usually just clean the hull with warm water then allow to dry and vacuum off any stuff left from the cleaning procedure. Using a soap could introduce a source of surface contamination if you don't rinse it off again after washing.

As for covering the stems, you just cut some strips of your standard cloth but you cut them at a 45 degree angle to the weave direction. This produces bias cut strips. If you can secure the loose glass around the stems then you could eliminate the bias cut strips. Any gaps should be filled with thickened epoxy whether you use the bias cut strips or not. If you want it to be transparent, you could prepromote some epoxy. Dispense some resin into a cup and dispense the correct ratio of hardener into a second cup. Then you add only about 10% or 20% of the hardener to the resin. Allow this to sit until it becomes quite thick, this may take a few hours, then stir in the remaining hardener and apply. It should be quite thick and hold well in place to fill the gaps.

loneeagle15
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Location: Montana

strongback

Post by loneeagle15 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:07 am

Ok after 2 years of lurking I am ready to start building my plans arrived yesterday.
I want to pick up the wood for my forms and strongback in the next week or 2 and was wondering after reading a recent post on strongbacks.
What should my ideal length be?
Do I need to add any height to my molds or cut them to the size on the plans?
I have been known to screw up a couple things up before so can I make a copy of may plans so that I have the originals untouched and protected is case I can not proberly trace the lines?
Thanks
Randy
On the other side of every fear is FREEDOM

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Woodchuck
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Location: Garden City, MI

Post by Woodchuck » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:57 am

Randy... I'm assuming you have decided to build the Nomad? If so, I put a 12" spacer in the middle of the strongback to make the total length 17'. This worked fine and I used 3/4" MDF for the strongback and 1/2" MDF for the forms which also worked fine. No changes required on the mold height. GOOD LUCK!
CYA, Joe
:applause
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI

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Patricks Dad
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Post by Patricks Dad » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:04 am

For strongback height, consider your own height. You want the work to be high enough so you won't be bending over all the time yet low enough so you can reach the middle of the project for those final strips. I built my strongback per canoecraft. But at times, I stand on top of a 6" platform to really get a good look/access at the very top of the canoe. I'd rather do that than stoop down constantly as I have some back problems.

For strongback length, it's convenient to have the stems overhang the strongback (rather than reside above the strongback). You will find working on the very ends of the canoe easier. I built the 17' Redbird first on my 16' strongback and both ends were fairly easy to work with (with the recurve of the Redbird, I could have used an even shorter strongback). When I built the 15' Freedom, I shifted the forms so that one end was past the end of the strongback leaving the other end well inside the footprint of the strongback (at least I had 1 end that was easy to work on.... )

As for making a copy of your plans, I did just that. My process for laying out the forms is to cut out the largest form, trace around it on the plywood and then cut the plan down to the next form size, trace it, etc. When I'm done, the plans are shreads of paper on the floor of my shop. Having the photocopy to refer to is very helpful.

Congratulations on your decision to build. Enjoy the journey.
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

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