Non-Bear Mountain Designs

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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Well, it is official! My second Boat is now underway.
I have begun to work on on a 16' Adirondack Guide Boat. I have John Michne and Michael Olivette's book, picked up the lofting supplies today, and have started making the plans.

I am really looking forward to this project, and will keep a journal of my progress in this forum. Will probably have lots of questions to ask as well.
I am planning on making this a longer term (longer than it took me to build my 15' Hiawatha) project.

I will also keep a running tally of expenses for this one- so far it is at $95.00 for the book and lofting supplies.

And of course will keep the progress updated with photographs.
I am looking forward to getting this next boat in the water, but I am looking even more forward to building it.

Here is the album:

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/AdirondackBoat/


Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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John Michne
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Post by John Michne »

Hi Mark –

Congratulations on starting an Adirondack guideboat. Mike Olivette, our publisher Nick Burns, and myself wish you success in the project, and we are very interested in following your progress.

There are very few minor changes that we would make in the book, but there is one that is a bit more than just minor. That has to do with the use of MAS epoxy. MAS changed the curing speed of their slow hardener after we wrote the section on using it. It is now a faster hardener, so the times for initial gel and final cure are significantly shorter than with their original slow hardener that we wrote about. This is not a problem, but for the first time builder, it could come as a surprise that, once realized, becomes really an improvement.

I have another guideboat started, and have the ribs made and ready for mounting on a bottom board. Before I do that, I have to finish a Bob’s Special student project. It should be out of the shop very soon, though.

If you have any questions or comments, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

Build on!!

John
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Thanks for the info. John.
I am still drawing/copying plans- so it may be a while till the actual building begins, but I am sure once it does I may have a question or two!

Mark
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Just a quick update:

I have been busy lofting the ribs- I have the first frame lofted and will do the second one tommorow. Slow and steady on this one.

It is just nice to be working on a boat again- fresh coffee in the morning- lofting at the kitchen table with the radio on and the sun coming in the windows. Nice and relaxing.

Mark
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Well, about 1 month into this project and I have completed the lofting stages. In total I have lofted 13 rib patterns and 1 stem pattern.
John Michne and Michael Olivette's book was very easy to follow and simplified the process greatly- step by step. I have enjoyed the lofting process, but must admit I am looking forward to getting into the shop now.
In all the total time spent lofting is about 8 hours and 45 minutes.
Total cost so far is still just under $100.

On to the shop to trace and cut patterns!

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/A ... type=local

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Just a quick update:

Tracing the patterns on to wood was finished this morning- 13 ribs and one stem.
Used the jigsaw to cut out rib patterns 11 and 12. Cut nice and smooth with a new blade.
After I finish cutting out the remaining patters (11 more) then I will use them to make the bending forms.
Have been busy at work and with family, so progress is slower than I expected. Good thing I have no timeline or deadlines to meet!

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Well,

Progress is slow, but moving forward!
Since my last update I managed to cut out the rib and stem patterns, design and cut out my bottom quarter board pattern, and determine and cut my rib foot lenghts to the appropriate distances.

Next will be tracing and cutting out the rib forms, then on to selecting wood and steam bending/laminating and cutting the actual ribs for the boat.

With work, an on-line college course and am 18 month old, I would imagine my pace of work will stay the same.

Total hours spent so far: 14 hours
Total $$$ spent to far: (approx.) $200

Updated photos in the link below.

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/A ... type=local


Good building everyone!! :wink

Mark,

Cantley, Quebec
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Time for another update.

Rib patterns and forms are all complete. I have the first stack of laminations for the first rib ready to be steamed and bent. (Then glued and trimmed). Then only 62 to go after that!
It is nice to finally be working on actual components of the boat.

I am using standard spruce lumber to build the ribs- I think it will owrk out well, but have to watch out for those damn knots!!

If anyone one has any advice on getting knot free spruce- let me know!

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Let the Bending begin.
Made a steam box, more of a tube rather, using 3" ABS pipe and appropriate connectors.
The first rib (numer 0) has been steamed and is clamped to the form now. I am glad to report all went well. I am however a little concerned about slicing it later on though.
One step at a time.

Anyways, I have updated the photo site.
Here is the link:

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/AdirondackBoat/

Yours in building,

Mark, Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Progress continues.
Between work, family visits, trips and my other distractions (brewing beer), I have managed to create more ribs- of the 66 required for the boat- I have made about 10% of them (8 ribs to date), making 3-4 at a time. The process consists of slicing the planks to the right size and thickness, steaming and bending for a day or two, then glue up and glue drying for a day or two more. The rib is then sliced into 3-4 individual ribs- and the process starts again for the next set. I am hoping with the warmer weather coming I will pick up the pace of work a bit- being able to cut outdoors.

On another exciting note- I was aware of one Adirondack Boat in the area here owned by a tourist operator. I took a drive out to have a look at the rib configurations the other day (the boat is hanging in a parking lot behind his shop) and found him there having a smoke break. Well we got to talking and he explained to me that he really has no use for the boat anymore and he would be willing to sell it to me if I was interested. Well I was and I now have a 50+ year old guideboat, 16 feet long, Lapstrake, that I will restore. It is in great shape, but does need a little TLC- nothing I can't take care of myself.
So here we go, another boat project on the go- I love this stuff though!

For the Adirondack under construction:
Hours spent so far: 22
Dollars spent so far: $250 (approx.)

I pick up the boat later this week and will post photo's for anyone who is interested.
Yours in building, (and now restoring)

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

So I decided to do a bit of a set up- just so I could see where I am at.
I was out there working this morning and to be honest about it, I was feeling a little frustrated with things.... how long it's taking, my sometimes lack of precision, my sometimes tendency to cut before measuring twice- you get the idea.

Well I decided to clamp the ribs I have completed together, space them beside each other and run a few short pieces of cedar along them- just so I could get a different visual prespective of my progress. Seeing the ribs scattered and hanging in the garage just wasn't doing it for me anymore.

So as you can see (see photo link below) while it is going slowly, it is going. On my first boat I had 2-3 hours a day to work on it- on this one I am lucky if I have that much time in a week to put towards it.

I think once the ribs are completed and set up- the stripping will go much faster, but that is a bit down the road at this point.

and as far as my lack of total and complete precision.... it is my philosophy that boats (especially of this type) were originally built with sticks, twigs and improvised hand tools- so I figure I can get something together that is safe and looks good, even with my modest tools and woodworking skills. But that said, I still get pretty mad with myself when I cut without measuring twice!

The photo's in the site show the ribs for stations #0 (4 of those ones) and one set for station # 1- you will see them on top of the Adirondack boat I bought and am planning to restore (see my other posts on that)- just keep in mind the ribs are not cut to length or sanded/finished yet- this is just to show a different prespective on my progress, mostly for my own benefit!

Here they are:

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/AdirondackBoat/

Any comments are appreciated. don't be shy.

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

I am still moving along- half of the required ribs have been cut, steamed, bent and then glued up. I am doing two sets at a time now and expect I will have them all done in the next 2-3 weeks. Then I will hand sand them and clean them up- and on to creating the skeleton etc... will have to start looking for more wood soon.

As far as the old one goes- I have a restoration plan in place. It is basically:
-strip the old varnish (outside only) , sand out the grey spots, fill the cracks in the wood planks with an epoxy/sawdust combination.
The inside is in excellent shape and will need nothing more than a gentle cleaning.

Well that is the plan for both projects as of now. Will post updates and photos periodically.

Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Arctic
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Post by Arctic »

Progress continues. I have now started building outdoors with the good weather, well mostly good weather.

John Michne's book is great, an excellent resource and tool for the building of this boat. That said- while I am following the plans in the book, I have adopted/customized several of the construction methods to suit my abilities and tool set. I have also decided to go ribless- that is using the ribs that I have constructed as forms to build around, but take them out in the end and use a fiberglass epoxy coat on the inside. There are several complicated reasons I have chosen this route , which I won't get into details of here.

The weight may be a little more than I planned in the end, but I never did plan on making this boat a "lite" one anyways.

The ribs are completed, the bottom board is cut and bevelled, and 4 ribs are now mounted and ready. Once I mount the rest of them the stems are next, then stripping.
So, I guess for the next little while I will be on my own and in unknown territory with this one- a place I actually don't mind being at all.

Updated photo in the album:

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/AdirondackBoat/


Mark,
Cantley, Quebec.
"The journey is the reward"- Tao saying
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

Hi Mark, it is good to see you are back at it. Keep us posted on progress.
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John Michne
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Post by John Michne »

Hi Mark –

Glad to see you are working on the guideboat, but I was somewhat surprised to see you are planning to go without the ribs. My very first guideboat was ribless, but was also disappointing. It was stripped over forms, with a plan to make and install ribs after fiberglassing the inside of the hull. That didn’t work, since it was impossible to get the ribs into the hull with any degree of accuracy and good fit. It seems the hull had the old problem of not being exactly the design hull shape due to the strips pulling away from the forms a small amount during stripping. This is a common problem with canoes, and maybe kayaks as well. I finally abandoned trying to put in ribs and completed it ribless.

The ribless hull was a little floppy. With the hull upright, I could shake one stem and the boat would wobble such that the other end would move opposite to the way I shook the first end. Installing the gunwales helped, but the hull was still not hard and tight. I had to install inwales, which also added more weight, but still the hull was not firm and stiff.

Installing seats was another problem. Since there were no ribs to fasten the seat risers to, I had to improvise by fastening seat risers to the hull with epoxy. The risers had to be a lot beefier than the design risers just to get a wide enough gluing surface, and wound up with even more weight. Fitting the risers to the hull was very difficult, since forming a compound curved surface on each of the six risers to fit the inside curves of the hull was a cut and try operation that took a lot of time.

The finished boat was overly heavy, requiring two people to carry it safely and it still is not stiff. It does row well, though, largely due to overall hull design.

My next guideboats were fully ribbed, lighter, and much easier to build. The strips were all screwed to the ribs by design, and much closer dimensions were easily maintained. The hulls are stiff and strong, but not overly heavy (one has brass bottom shoes, which adds a lot of weight).

I urge you to reconsider using ribs. Stripping will be a lot less frustrating in maintaining correct hull shape and you will not need the inside fiberglass. Using only half of the fiberglass and epoxy is also a significant cost savings. If you went ribless, you would need enough 6 oz. cloth to cover the boat inside and out. For a fully ribbed strip built boat, you only need 4 oz. cloth on the outside, and a lot less expensive epoxy.

The seats are easy to mount, and the overall boat will have a lot more aesthetic value as well as a much more significant sale value.

- John
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