Non-Bear Mountain Designs

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Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:49 am

A few more little odds & ends to take care of before I start stripping. Nobody local had any glue syringes so I went to the $ .99 store and picked up a 'pic-nik' 4-pack of little squeeze bottles.

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The hole is only 1/16” dia. This will work nicely for putting glue in the cove side of the strips.

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Sanded the epoxy lumps and bumps off my stems and then ran them over the jointer to clean them up nicely.

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I then took them out back to the shop and marked the centers. I have a couple of Grandkid deliveries tomorrow morning, but, when I get home I’ll be cutting out a couple of little goal-posts to clamp on top of the forms and those will hold my strips in order for each side so I can FINALLY get started stripping it.

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Once I start glueing I will have time to go back to the garage and run out a few more strips, just in case. It's been in the 40's - 50's here lately so the glue will be a tad slow in curing.

Rehd

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Cruiser
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Location: Bowmanville, Ontario

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Cruiser » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:35 pm

As I understand it, lower temperatures do a lot more than slow the cure, if you get below the chalking temperature ( min temp on label), there is a good chance the joint strength will be compromised.

I did some reading last year, as I was striping through the winter and my garage was getting much cooler than I wanted ( 50s). I swapped to a glue with a lower chalking temp to be on the safe side.

Titebond II has a chalking temperature of 55F I believe, which means your current temp range could cause you some issues with that product.

I could blather on, but this link describes the chalking temperature and what happens ... it is from the Titebond website.

http://www.titebond.com/Libraries/Liter ... .sflb.ashx

Also, there are several good alternative glues, which will work fine at cooler temps, I ended up picking LePages Express (37F) and I just picked up some Titebond III (47F) ... the alternatives aren't exotic, you just have to research a bit on the minimum temperature.


Brian

Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:36 pm

Thanks Brian, Good info.. I'll do a little checking around here to see what is available.
Guess I'll hold off on stripping until I make sure my glue will work. I have a small heater, but, this shed is not closed. It's a steel framed car-port with tin roof, and I have made all the walls out of vinyl truck tarp material. I can close off the doorway with a simple tarp or more vinyl to help keep the warmth in. I can warm it up, glue my strips and keep the heat on for several hours to give it time. I need to get some clamp on lights to put out there as it's almost too dark to work. Coding prevents me from having permanent electrical fixtures in there.

Time to sit down grab my coffee and contemplate things a little.

Rehd

Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:11 am

Well, spent more time messin about with little stuff. Decided to take a few minutes and start grinding the angles on the stems, just roughing them out and I can finish them later when I start putting the strips on. Got out the usual tools for the job, but, that was way too slow. So….

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… I got a wild idea to try my angle grinder with sanding disk on it, but, that turned out to be waaaay too rough and couldn’t see what I was doing.

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Then I got out my Random Orbital Sander with 80 grit disk and that was JUST RIGHT. The damage on the stem is from the grinder. I’ll finish up with a file/rasp and sharp chisel if needed.

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While I was at it I cut out these little brackets to hold my first few strips for each side and put them in order of how they’ll be put on.

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Went to Harbor Freight and got a 500 watt Q.H. light I can hang from the support and light things up a bit. As you can see in some of my pics, it’s just a tad too dark to work comfortably in there. I tried hanging an old flourescent fixture with wire and plugging that in, but it wasn't quite enough. The Q.H. will do the job nicely. Also got a tarp to cover the opening and with the help of my propane heater, it should be warm enough to work comfortably and for glue to cure. I’ll run by Home Depot tomorrow and see what they have in glue, besides Titebond, and check their low temp restrictions.
Hopefully this weekend I WILL get to start stripping.


Rehd

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Patricks Dad
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Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Patricks Dad » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:37 am

For shaping stems, build yourself a michne stick. You won't need any other tools.

Invented by John Michne, a Michne stick is simply a length of stripping long enough to reach from the stem to about 20" past the next station with a section of coarse sandpaper with adhesive on the end (you can experiment with lengths to suit you). You can buy sandpaper with peel-off adhesive and cut strips to match your strip width.
You lay the stick across the forms to match the shape of the hull and run it back and forth to remove inner stem material leaving the perfect angle for the strip to glue to the stem. Work ahead of the stripping a few strips and always keep the Michne stick parallel to the strips already in place. You can get things in the neighborhood with a spokes have if you want. I build with cedar inner stems so shaping goes pretty fast with the stick alone.
Randy Pfeifer
(847) 341-0618
Randy.Pfeifer1@gmail.com

Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:40 pm

Awesome idea. I've done similar things when matching hull & deck on kayaks, using sand paper on a stick to reach both sides. Don't know why I didn't think of that. Years ago I would check out Johns site about once a week to get ideas for things. I do believe that his Wee Lassie II was the boat that really got me fired up to build my first strip type boat. Haven't been to his site in years... guess I'll have to go take a peek if it's still there.

Thanks for the tip and reminder Randy.


Rehd

Rehd Brown
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Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:45 pm

Oh, forgot to mention, my inner stems are Paulownia so they will sand equally easy, however, my chisel and spokeshave were not sharp enough and really gouged out the wood. Working on that..

Rehd

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Cruiser
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Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Cruiser » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:47 pm

Randy knows I am a big fan of the sticks, one other tip is to get a really aggressive sandpaper (i.e. 60 or even 40).

I just use wood glue to attach a sandpaper strip to both sides of a scrap strip length (put a weight on till it sets up), the aggressive sandpaper helps cut the angle quickly and reduces the chance to mess up.



Brian

Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:04 pm

Left the fairing strips on, but, moved them down below the sheer-line and will use those to support the first strips. Once the first strips are attached on each side, I can remove the support strips. I’m thinking seriously of adding another strip to raise the sheer-line as it is a very shallow hull. Just a thought at this time…

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Finally put down the first strip..!! WooHoo..!! I had to pull down the support strip ( poplar ) and fasten with screws to keep it in place. The Paulownia strips, on the other hand, bent down to the stem very easily and I started to just tape it, but, was afraid it wouldn’t stay in place, so I put a clamp on it. I only got the one strip on because I had pulled the strips all out of my goalpost stands in order to work on the stems, and need to sort them all out again. By the way, the “Michne Stick” idea worked great. I used my chisel to remove the bulk of the material, then with a strip of 60grit cut off a belt sander belt and glued to the short strip, I was able to clean it up and get the proper angle with very little effort. Awesome..!!

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Unfortunately, tomorrow it’s going to rain late and I have to get to the ranch and slab out a few small logs of Paulownia to air dry. Might be the last chance I get for a month or two.. so, no boat work tomorrow.!
Feels good to finally get that first strip on..  Used a little heat out there and kept it on for a couple hours and hope the glue sets up. Not sure how long it will last, but it was stuck down well when I closed shop.


Rehd

Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:47 am

I know this is sorta ‘off-topic’ but, IF I say that I cut the log and 2”x’s for the Sairy Gamp, I may be able to squeeze by the rules this one time. I cut up an old log that had been sitting around and gotten some major cracks on the outside, down to near the center. It was in pretty bad shape mostly due to our negligence in treating the ends, slabbing it and covering it to dry. Some of my strips for the Sairy Gamp have a little discoloration on them because of that. Now, as soon as we get the logs, we slab them to 2” and paint the ends, then put a tarp over them.

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This stack of slabbed Paulownia is from shorts cut off crooked logs. Mostly 4’ to 8’. My grandson helped do all the cutting and stickering so we could beat the rain. Quite a few Sairy Gamps in this pile.

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Hopefully, tomorrow, after playing taxi first thing in the morning, I’ll get back to stripping the Sairy Gamp.

Rehd

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Cruiser
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Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Cruiser » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:39 am

Last build for me was out of NWC and that means skarfing pretty much all the wood as they don't come long enough.

There are a ton of posts in here on skarfing individual strips and that will do the job, but i just wasn't going to do that for every strip. What I did instead was to skarf the larger boards, so i ended up with a board long enough to make the strips directly. I did use epoxy to put them together, just to avoid any issues with potentially voids (used thinned till saturated, then thickened for assembly). That metod worked great for me.

Those shorts could make larger boards and the different pieces can be matched up to make interesting patterns or just be matched close ... just a thought.


Brian

Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:38 pm

Went back out today to work in back yard, and between mowing and patching fence boards, I managed to get a couple more strips on.
I tried to use just blue masking tape, and though it held the strips to the stems, it would not pull out the slight twist and kept pulling off the stem at the top of the strip.


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So, I used an alternative. Clamps, of course, would not stay on the V shape of the stem, so I used the cut offs and clamped the strip down from just above. That will probably be a different story as I get up higher where there’s more twist. We shall see. I’m hoping not to have to staple them, but, will if I have to.

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Chance of rain for the next 3 or 4 days, so I should have time to get a few more strips on.

Rehd

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Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Cruiser » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:50 am

There are lots of ways to handle those end strips, wedges, sandpaper on strips, but I found this is simple and works for me. I just "borrowed" some of the kitchen "non slip" shelf liner and that coupled with a clamp, works really well and is very simple.

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Brian

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Jim Dodd
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Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Jim Dodd » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:51 am

A bit of sand paper glued to the clamp feet, should work also.
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!

Rehd Brown
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Fresno, California

Re: Non-Bear Mountain Designs

Post by Rehd Brown » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:48 pm

Glad you guys are still around on the forum... it would get pretty lonely..!
And you've got plenty of good ideas. That black clamp reminded me I have a couple of old plastic 3" spring clamps that I very seldom use and they have a rubbery cap on the ends. Before putting sand paper on the caps I will try to cut or melt a bunch of grooves in them to see if that will give them better grip in this situation. If not, then how do you get sandpaper to stick to the rubbery ends of the clamps.? Maybe contact cement.? :thinking
I hadn't thought of it till now, but, I've used double stick tape to temporarily hold pieces of other projects together before, I could make some small wedges out of scrap and stick those to the ends of the strips to help give the clamps a flatter surface. Then just peel them off when the glue dries and move to the next strip.
:thinking

Rehd

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