Freedom 17 or 17' 9"?

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Dennis in CA
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:35 pm
Location: California

Freedom 17 or 17' 9"?

Post by Dennis in CA »

I'm new at this, and have never even been in a canoe. However, I'm a long time camper, usually near a lake and I've wanted a canoe for a long time. I've read "Canoecraft" and "Building a Strip Canoe" and have decided to build a Freedom. I'm leaning to the 17' 9" version. I doubt it will ever go on a river, and I would like to at least be able to go out with my wife or both of my sons (maybe all four of us once in a while?) I'm 6'1" tall, my wife is 6', my 16 year old son is 6'6" and my 14 year old son is 5'11" and has some growing left, thus my leaning to the 17' 9" version (or should I stretch it a bit to 18' - 18' 3"?)

One concern is car topping it and then carying it to the lake. I have a Honda Odyssey minivan (16' 9" long). Also, It looks like I can get 19' Western Red Cedar locally, so 18' may be the limit. The cedar is available S2S, 5/8" thick; it that going to be a problem? I suspect that it only means it will take longer to build (more strips).

I plan to build "stapleless" as described on page 105 of "Canoecraft" and use bead and cove for the strips.

Comments or suggestions?
Dennis
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Erik
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:58 am

Post by Erik »

Dennis,

It sounds to me like you have four adults, not really two adults and two kids. I just finished the hull of my freedom 17. I am tripping (3-7 day trips) with my wife and two kids (4 and 1 - combined 5' tall and 60lbs!!!) as i stand and look at the hull, its not much larger than my prospector 16'-6".... not much difference in 6". i am starting to think i should have gone with the 17'-9"... i guess what i am saying is, unless your only talking about short day trips, i dont think the four of you will be comfortable in either.... if i was you, i would be using the assumption of two boats for the family.

As for the stapleless - i thought i would do this also, and quickly abandoned it.... it is a tone of extra work, and definitally not worth it in my opinion.
patrick
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:25 pm
Location: Arizona

Post by patrick »

I dont know about the 17 vs. 17-9, but i do know that stapleless is the way to go. My dad and i are in the process of building a redbird. We have it fiberglassed and the inwales are on. We stapled on the first board so it would be held in place very sturdily and be easier to adjust to make a nice fair curve, and these staple holes are now covered up by the gunnels. After that first board, we went stapleless. In my opinion, it is worth the work. We can now see the 2 methods side by side and stapleless definetely looks better. For us, we could only put on strips in the evenings after school/work so we would only be putting on a few boards per night, so we figured we might as well go stapleless and now we are happy we did. As for length, we shortened the redbird from 17-6 to 17. We did this so it would fit in the garage for storage, and now that i look at it, i think it is fine. 6 inches is not much, as Erik said, but now it fits in our garage with out having to cut holes in the walls.
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KARKAUAI
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Location: Hickory, NC / Princeville, Kauai, HI
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Post by KARKAUAI »

Patrick,
You say six inches isn't much. I beg to differ. It depends on where the six inches is. My dad used to say that 1/4" isn't much unless it's on the end of your nose. Then there's that controversy about whether women are inherently inferior in mathematics (witness the trouble the President of Harvard is in over his statement). My dad used to say women had trouble with math because they've been told all their lives that this:
**************************************************************
is 6".
Having said this, the six inches you're talking about is inconsequential.
A hui ho,
Kent
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Doug
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:59 am
Location: London, Ontario, Canada

Post by Doug »

May be of interest, Larger cedarstrip canoes;

Cirrus, http://www.greenval.com/cirrus.html
Quetico, http://www.greenval.com/quetico.html
Winisk; http://www.greenval.com/winisk.html

How to buy a canoe, http://www.greenval.com/buy_canoe.html

Doug




.
"Some people hear the song in the quiet mist of a cold morning..... But for other people the song is loudest in the evening when they are sitting in front of a tent, basking in the camp fire's warmth. This is when I hear it loudest ...." BM
sedges
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:37 pm
Location: georgia

either

Post by sedges »

the Freedom 17'9" or consider the 18'4" Quetico from Green Valley. The characteristics of these two boats are similar. You have four good-sized folks here, you need a big canoe. I would not recommend stretching either of these unless you have it done by the designer. They are assymetrical hulls and a bit more complicated to stretch than a symmetrical one. Your 5/8 strips are fine. It will actually be easier to fair the hull. That type of material sounds like clear grade cedar, especially since you can get 19' pieces. Well worth it. You will have very little waste. I would recommend a band saw to rip strips to get the most out of your boards. Staples or not is up to you. During building of the first boat it is going slow you down a bunch to go stapleless, but you may not be in a hurry. Enjoy!
Dennis in CA
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:35 pm
Location: California

I've decided

Post by Dennis in CA »

Thanks to all for the inputs. I just ordered the Freedom 17'9" plans (and will probably build it 18' long).

Dennis
Dennis
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