Are kayaks only for skinny short people?

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canoeblderinmt
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Are kayaks only for skinny short people?

Post by canoeblderinmt »

OK, look:

I am looking for a kayak to build, mostly for river tripping. I need it to carry me and camping gear for up to a week. I was almost settled on an Endeavor, but did a final check around the site looking at the charts, etc. I'm a little overweight right now at about 210 lbs. I am dieting and exercising to get back to a really healthy weight for me: 190. I haven' t weighed 170 (the weight given as a "Heavy" paddler) since High School in the seventies! At my peak of fitness as a Marine Officer running consecutive 6 minute miles, I was 185. So what gives?? Am I destined to stay in canoes? Or build only the biggest kayaks? I've seen pictures of the Eskimos who invented these things and they are no light-weights.

Can somebody help?

Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
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Glen Smith
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Post by Glen Smith »

It seems to me that most kayak designs target the 160 to 190 pound group. There are several designs out there for "heavyweight" paddlers but you have to look for them. Bear Mountain have the True North XPD 19/3: http://www.bearmountainboats.com/19-3Tr ... _Kayak.htm There are also a few "One Ocean Kayak" designs that might suit you such as the Cape Ann High Volume: http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/kayakpro/HVtech.htm . Most designers have one or two kayaks for big paddlers and/or heavy loads.
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Bryan Hansel
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Post by Bryan Hansel »

I'm 200 pounds a 5'10"ish and have found plenty of kayaks that work for my weight. How much camping gear would be helpful to know.
canoeblderinmt
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Post by canoeblderinmt »

Well Bryan,
If I follow your suggestions, I'll be bringing enough stuff for a 3 bedroom house, but it'll only weigh 5 pounds!! :laughing JK I was actually looking over your postings on your successful Siskit Bay and recalling our emails a few months ago. I also checked out the Outer Island design and think I might go that way. I would like to support the Forum and go with an Endeavour, so I'm still undecided. Have you paddled an Endeavour or OI? We are the same basic dimensions, but I have no experience in kayaks. I think I would use mine like you write about using yours, though I'll be on rivers mostly. I have a twenty foot canoe, I really don't want a 19 foot something kayak, know what I mean? I'm leaning towards a smaller boat and just taking less gear. Nessmucking, right?

What do you think?

Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
KenC
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Post by KenC »

Greg - I'm 6'5", 230 lbs, and I paddle an Endeavour. I've had it fully loaded with cargo for a short camping trip, and while I may have been a little over the "ideal" design load, it paddled just fine.

This pic was taken on the last day, on the way back to the takeout ... still riding a little low, but not so much that I'd consider a bigger kayak. My next one will be smaller (narrower & with lower rear deck).

Image
canoeblderinmt
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Post by canoeblderinmt »

Ken,
You look pretty good in that Endeavour, and riding high in the saddle, too. I've got a copy of Kayakcraft coming to Borders this week. I knew whichever design I picked I'd need that book (and the forum) to get me through my first kayak. I think it's coming down to the Endeavour and the Outer Island. I guess it's almost a toin coss at this point. Hope there are some more posts from you experienced kayakers out there that will help me decide. 'Course, I could always just build them both....

Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
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Bryan Hansel
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Post by Bryan Hansel »

Yep. Nessmuking -- the art of traveling light! My next goal is to incorporate some type of Dr. Whovian type mechanism into my hull that allows it to be bigger inside than outside and weighs only 2 pounds on the outside. :)

I've had the Siskiwit Bay out of Lake Superior a couple of times already this year, and I'm really loving it. It's very well behaved in every situation that I've had it in this year - up to 2 foot confused waves. I'm still a little nervous in it while leaning it on the side, because I don't know how far I can push it --- at 34 to 35 F the water is just too stinking cold to roll in. I'll have to wait a little before I learn a little more about its performance.

I haven't paddled the Endeavour of OI, but I've seen the OI in person and it is a jaw dropping experience. It's my understanding that it's a strong tracker, but you might want to email Jay or ask on the kayak forum for more info. The Endeavour is a pretty kayak also. I'd be tempted to lower the rear deck of the Endeavour if I was building it. Or add a Layback Lounge.
canoeblderinmt
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Post by canoeblderinmt »

Bryan,
I'm glad to hear that the Siskiwit is testing out well. It is a nice looking kayak: it reminds me of a mix between the OI and a Swede hull. Have you had any cargo in it yet? I don't blame you on not roll testing it yet; I think the only reason the water here isn't frozen is it's moving! I sthere a heated pool in town (YMCA, Health Club) that might let you in for awhile?

I did write Jay and heard right back from him. His exact words were: "I think you better off with the Endeavour. the OI is not a cargo lugger and is a more snug fit with a little more tracking than the endeavour. If you already kayaked and had experience with that I
> would certainly put the grand selling dialogue in motion." Pretty funny, that last part. I've been perusing every kayak site I can find and it seems the OI has a very strong following, but I think it's more for day tripping than the Endeavour. Sure is pretty, though.

Post some more pics, or I guess I'll read installment 13 of "Building the Perfect Kayak?"

Greg

PS: When you get that Device working, I could sure use it in my shop!

PSS: Are you still looking for another builder for the Siskiwit?
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
KenC
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Post by KenC »

I'd be tempted to lower the rear deck of the Endeavour if I was building it. Or add a Layback Lounge.
I agree, and in fact, that's exactly what I did ... I lowered the centerline of the rear deck, to soften the peak, and installed a cockpit recess, to lower the back edge of the coaming. Even with that, the cockpit is still much higher than the Outer Island, but I don't have any problem with layback rolls.
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Bryan Hansel
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Post by Bryan Hansel »

I haven't had any real cargo in it, but I filled up some dry bags with around 36 pounds of water and stashed those in the hull. Seemed to do okay. I'd like to paddle it all day loaded in waves. There is a pool in town, but I haven't stopped in to ask.

The Boundary Waters are going through ice out right now. Most of the smaller lakes are out and the bigger lakes are going now. On the weekend, we were paddling 6 foot leads next to shore. Yesterday, I had to push my canoe across 50 to 100 yards of slush ice to get to open water. And today, I was able to get open water from shore. Although I did have to paddle through some ice to get to another part of the lake.

I'll post some more pictures in the next installment. I don't have anything processed or online right now. The next installment is how much I spent. Urgggh. It was a little much, but I like the boat.

I could use another builder, but the Endeavour is a proven design, and even though the SB is turning out to be a good boat, I'm not completely satisfied that a quirk won't show up. I'm about 99% sure right now though. If you want to give it a go, email me. Otherwise, I'm sure the Endeavour would prove to be an excellent boat. Ken's looks very nice.
canoeblderinmt
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Post by canoeblderinmt »

Well,
After reading the posts, and and email exchange with the designer of the OI, and purchasing Kayakcraft, I'm now tossing between the Endeavour and the Resolute. I think Endeavour is going to win out. I have to move (again), but when I get settled in a week or so, I'll be building a new strongback and working on forms. Lots of questions to follow, I'm sure!!

Thanks for everyone's input,

Greg
" Choose to chance the rapids, Dare to dance the tide..."
jsantell
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Post by jsantell »

I'm kind of got the same problem. I'm 6 feet tall, 215 pounds and wear orthopedic shoes that work out to being close to a size 13. I'm considering the Truenorth. I want to paddle the Erie canal, maybe some camping up in the Thousand Islands, A little open water on Lake Ontario. I'm retiring in 7 years and would like to circumnavigate Ontario at that time. What do you guys think?
KenC
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Post by KenC »

jsantell - I think the True North would be too big for you. Assuming you built it to around 50 lbs (my Endeavour is around 43 lbs), you'd still have to carry about 35 lbs of gear & cargo just to get to the bottom of the stated optimum capacity range (300 to 480 lbs). At the other end of the spectrum, you'd be able to carry 215 lbs of camping cargo, before you exceeded that range.
That's a lot of gear ... just how many kegs of beer do you plan to bring along? :razz

There's no substitute for a test paddle. Will you be attending the Rendezvous later this month? I don't know if there will be any completed True Norths there, but there are sure to be several Endeavours, among other things. Might be a good opportunity to help you make a choice.
jsantell
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Post by jsantell »

KenC, I was looking at the optimal load range of the different boats and figured that with the weight of the boat plus my weight I'm already at the top of the optimal range for the Endeavor. If I planned on paddling on protected waters only I would think it wouold serve, but my goal is to get out on Ontario and I don't really want to load it out with gear to the point where I might get swampted. My wife and I are putting three kids through college so I know I can sneak one boat by her but probably not two, one for protected waters and one for Ontario. I would rather ballast the boat down for short trips on the canal or a day paddle up in the thousand Islands and still have the capacity to load the heck out of it for long trips. Also, being 6 foot tall with a 215 pound weight you can imaging I'm a little squat looking and my waist is a little wider than the Endeavors cockpit and that's not even taking into cosideration my huge feet! I don't know about the Rendezvous. I didn't even know about this fite or forum until lat week so I don't know if I can work it into my schedule. As for beer, maybe a small cooler! :wink
KenC
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Post by KenC »

jsantell, I know what you mean about the stated capacity range of the Endeavour ... I'm well over the upper limit also, with just me & the boat, and yet I've never felt unsafe in it. The stated range seems weirdly low to me ... but I have no scientific basis for saying that ... its only my personal observation.

I take my Endeavour out on Lake Ontario all the time, though only for day paddles, and never with more than maybe 10 lbs of extraneous gear. I have had it fully loaded with camping gear on Lake Huron (Georgian Bay) ... the picture upthread was taken on the way back to the takeout ... beer and food provisions were substantially depleted by that time, so the cargo load was lighter than on the way out ... and even then you can see that it sits a little low in the water, but I never once felt like it was overloaded. Water was pretty calm that week, though ... I might have felt differently in rough conditions.

Whatever you build, it'll be a rewarding experience.
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