Help choosing design...

[tszpieg]

Hello Everyone-
Add me to the list of people who have been reading this forum and researching various designs, for quite some time... Also, add me to the list of people who are having a hard time making a decision. I guess I'm just looking for some info on experience and input.
I guess I've been leaning toward the Freedom 17, but want to make sure this is the best canoe for me and my family. From what I've read (please correct me if I'm wrong, or if there's a better boat for my needs), the Freedom 17 sounds like a pretty good all-around boat.
I need a boat to carry my wife and I, along with one or two children comfortably. I would also like it to be solo-friendly. I do forsee solo trips in it as well. Mostly smaller winding rivers for day trip paddles with the family, however, I would like to do some weekend adventures as well, moving and still-waters.
We've been renting the aluminum barges for our trips long enough! We need some class.
Any thoughts or help would be great.

Thanks,

Terry

[Patricks Dad]

If it's class you're looking for, you should look no further than the Redbird.

[Rick]

I guess I've been leaning toward the Freedom 17, but want to make sure this is the best canoe for me and my family. From what I've read (please correct me if I'm wrong, or if there's a better boat for my needs), the Freedom 17 sounds like a pretty good all-around boat.
I need a boat to carry my wife and I, along with one or two children comfortably. I would also like it to be solo-friendly. I do forsee solo trips in it as well. Mostly smaller winding rivers for day trip paddles with the family, however, I would like to do some weekend adventures as well, moving and still-waters.

Solo paddling in a Freedom 17 will mean that a kneeling thwart or extra seat will have to be installed, unlike a more traditional symmetrical design that can be paddled reversed solo. The extra thwart could be used to carry a third occupant, OTOH, it can also cut down on the amount of space available to carry loads, unless it's removable.

A traditional design like a Prospector 16 might actually be more comfortable and less tippy, especially if a child is moving about. You will also get good solo performance in a Prospector, if in doubt it'll probably be possible to rent one out to test-paddle to make sure the choice is right before building. It might also be possible to test a Freedom 17, although it's less popular.

I haven't test-paddled a Redbird, but it could also be suitable and will be a faster paddle than a Prospector, especially into the wind.

Brief summary:

Freedom 17 - fast, narrow, efficient to paddle long distances in, may be somewhat tippy with child inside, good solo performance with extra kneeling thwart needed, especially good on lakes and flatwater.

Prospector 16 - a little slower, wider, less tippy, more comfortable with child moving around inside, good load carrier, good solo performace, no extra kneeling thwart needed for solo, may be more difficult to paddle against winds, greater rocker makes turning easier on creeks, the fuller ends will be better in riding out waves, proven versatile design.

Good luck!

[Bryan Hansel]

Hey Terry,

My experience with a Freedom 17 -- I've tripped out of it now for around 5 years, I think -- is that the Freedom is indeed a great all around canoe. IMHO, it is by far the best canoe for slow moving rivers and flat water tripping. It's fast, carry just enough, and gets the job done. At night, when you don't feel like sitting around the campfire, it becomes a great boat for solo style play.

So, for some questions: How big are the kids? Are you planning on putting both kids and gear in the boat for camping? If they are big, you probably want to think about the 17'9 and if you are planning on carrying camping gear for the whole family plus the whole family the 17 won't cut it. I've tripped out of it with three people and gear in the canoe and it is tight! It's much better when we take one of our solo canoes and the 17 when going out with three or four people.

Solo: It's a pretty nice solo boat for occasional solo travel, but it isn't my first choice in a solo boat. That said, I've paddled it fully loaded for two, solo, down a river after some damage (river was too rough for a wood canoe), and my friend hitched back to the car. I paddled it half a day to a bridge and waited for him. It was on the Volga in Iowa, so you can Google Earth it and see if it is similar to the rivers that you're planning on paddling. It's a very nice solo boat for day trips and for solo photography. The boat paddles best solo leaned.

I have a kneeling thwart built into my canoe at the same place that a normal thwart would go. It takes up no more room that a standard thwart so it won't take away from any storage space if you build it this way. I much prefer to paddle the canoe on a pad up next to the yoke. I don't have a forward thwart in the canoe, so I gain some storage there.

I'm going to have to disagree with Rick on the stability - I realize that he qualified his remark with the word may, so this may not be a disagreement at all. In my experience, having a child in the boat is not tippy. I've found this canoe pretty darn stable, but I also grew up canoeing from a very young age, so factor that into your reading of my remarks.

Cheers,
Bryan

[Rick]

Bryan,

I'm going to have to disagree with Rick on the stability - I realize that he qualified his remark with the word may, so this may not be a disagreement at all. In my experience, having a child in the boat is not tippy. I've found this canoe pretty darn stable, but I also grew up canoeing from a very young age, so factor that into your reading of my remarks.

The reason I said the Freedom 17 might feel tippy, is that at least a couple of builders described it that way after trying it on the water. One even fell out and wrote about the instability with some disappointment. The Prospector has a higher stability number, so I felt that could have been a better choice in those instances.

Or not... those builders may have become used to the Freedom's stability characteristics and paddling comfortably became second nature with time. Difficult to say just where the dividing line between comfortably stable and unstable is for any individual, so the option for a more stable Prospector, or another choice is always there.

If I had to choose between the two, it would probably be the Freedom... FWIW.

[Bryan Hansel]

Oh, I agree, which is why I tried to qualify my experience. I grew up paddling and will always be a paddler before a builder. With that in mind, I've never found the Freedom tippy. Standing on the gunwales and walking them hasn't ever been a problem for me.

Other builders who may not have the canoeing experience may feel much different.

[tszpieg]

Thank you all so much for the info and your thoughts. I deeply appreciate it. I think I'm pretty much set on the 16' Prospector, however I haven't begun the molds yet. Have any of you had any experience with this boat? What are your thoughts? I read that this boat is a pleasure to paddle solo in the 'leaned position'. Can someone clarify for me what the leaned position is.
Any other thoughts are very welcome.

Thanks in advance.
Happy paddling. Warm weather is here.

Terry

[Glen Smith]

Paddling in the leaned position is also called "Canadian style paddling" or "Canoe Dance".

Here are a few links that should help explain it: http://home.cogeco.ca/~canoedance/pages ... ction.html

Youtube has a good demo on this procedure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4RJAeP7pDI

[sluggo]

FWIW, I had pretty much the same requirements as Terry. I was sooooo tempted to build the F17, and I still might regret that I didn't. However, I decided on the Freedom 15 which I am stretching to 16'. I spoke with Steve Killings about my requirements and it was actually Steve's suggestion that I go for the 15' extended. I hadn't even considered the F15 before because I wasn't looking for a 15' canoe.

My main concern with the F17 was stability. Too be honest, I don't think stability would have been a real problem. However, with having 2 young kids the last thing I wanted to do was scare them or have them freak out. At times they are both quite cautious kids, so I decided to play it safe.

cheers

[slucke]

I built a Freedom 15 stretched to 16 about 6 years ago. I also chose it with 2 young kids in mind. It is very stable and we have never come close to tipping. It paddles fine solo (or when you have a small child "helping".