Trying to choose first canoe

[Bladeforger]

Howdy:

First, I want to express appreciation to the Bear Mountain folks for being tolerant of discussion of plans and designs from other sources. That is one of the things I've noticed about this forum that distinguishes it and makes this forum a joy to read.

I've been reading a lot over the past 8-10 months, and am almost ready to dedicate the back porch to a canoe project--about a month away from having time and space at the same time. Before I build a kayak, I want to build a small canoe--something to tool around the Tampa Bay area in. There are lots of protected areas where the water is quiet and a canoe is perfect for noodling about.

My reading has turned up many good first candidates, with a priority being given to light weight. In no particular order, I've looked at and seriously considered the following.

CLC Sassafras, a small, lightweight stitch-and-glue lapstrake design, ultimately rejected because I feel like the bottom being the only portion encased in fiberglass is a weak spot. Also, CLC only offers the plans that come in the book, Canoe Shop, and a kit... however, the plans in the book don't look incredibly hard to loft. I'll probably build a Chesapeake 16LT someday, but I won't be building a Sassafras for the first canoe.

David Nichols design in his Lapstrake Canoes book called Little Princess, tentatively rejected because of the same reason that the whole hull isn't glassed. However, in the final analysis I favored the Little Princess over the Sassafras because of the use of station forms--something that is a selling point to most people (not needing station forms)(Sassafras), but something that seems, the more I read about it, to ensure that the boat built is what the designer drew. I was more impressed with the use of station forms, and I was comfortable with the way Nichols's book was written.

The Rob Roy, also lightweight, but only a single-person canoe at 12 feet (or at 13 feet depending on whether you get internet plans or loft from the offsets in the book Canoecraft). I may yet have to build one of these, but it won't be my first project. Also, I'd have to think really hard about using 3/16 strips.

The Ulua, a sailing canoe, which hasn't been rejected but which won't be the first canoe. I like the design and the author explains the outrigger design and lashing and rigs sufficiently well to inspire confidence in the designs. One of the most important things I picked up in my reading (Building Outrigger Sailing Canoes by Dierking) was the importance of building a sailing canoe with a narrow waterline. That means that a regular paddling canoe outfitted with an outrigger and a sail won't track as well or sail as close to the wind. I have this feeling that I absolutely *must* build one of these in the next few years.

The Wee Lassie, of course, but rejected ultimately because the plans are just more than plans should cost... a personal opinion that may or may not be valid. I did find another source of plans, the Adirondack museum plans (dirt cheap); however, that route might be better for a more experienced builder--not me.

Another, Nymph, seems like a splendid design. I pored over the two Wooden Boat issues that illustrate building Nymph, and really like that design a lot. It's one that I'm currently leaning toward.

Dusk, by Stillwater Boats. I ordered the plans, looked at them, and--heck, I may build one someday only because of the simplicity; however, I don't want the **first** one to be something I'm not sure I'll like a lot. Also, I decided at some point that the first canoe would be strip built with rolling bevels--Not stitch and glue; Not lapstrake; and Not with cove and bead.

Laughing Loon's Wee Two--one I'm currently leaning toward. I like that it's 12 1/2 feet long and will handle (supposedly) a 400 pound payload. That's more than enough for fat me and my slender wife. Yet at 32 pounds, and with the swiveling backrest, I can paddle it solo, too. I like the fine pointed bow and stern. What's to not like? Okay, I have some things that I either don't like or am not sure about: I'm not sure if it's narrow enough to comfortably use a double paddle. The photos don't illustrate the air tanks that are supposed to be in the bow and stern. I can't see them. Finally, searching forums and builders' pages doesn't turn up much in the way of happy builders--or unhappy builders. Yet it makes sense that some has built one or two, right?

(I would not choose the smaller version, the Wee Vera, over the Nymph at this time. I can't explain why to myself, so I can't explain it to anyone else. All I can say is that it is what it is.)

(And I can't figure out why a Rob Roy (especially in the 13 foot configuration) doesn't have the capacity of a Wee Two. Is there something I'm missing?

So, unless I've totally overlooked something, it's coming down to the Nymph and the Wee Two. I can pick either, sit down with a cup of tea and talk myself into the other one in five minutes. All opinions / experiences / other information is gladly and gleefully accepted!

Keith

[Bryan Hansel]

Yes, you're missing all the real canoes. Seriously, if you're going to build a kayak, why not look at some canoe designs that are designed to paddle with a real canoe paddle and not a double bladed paddle. They're extremely versatile for one or two. Something like a Ranger.

[Bladeforger]

Yes, you're missing all the real canoes. Seriously, if you're going to build a kayak, why not look at some canoe designs that are designed to paddle with a real canoe paddle and not a double bladed paddle. They're extremely versatile for one or two. Something like a Ranger.

Okay, I like the lines of the Ranger... enough so that I have it in my mind for a future project. I like the size, the looks, the weight for it's size, etc. It would be perfect for a first project (especially with the versatility of both double and solo) if it weren't for one small detail... On the diagonal measurement with room for the width of a strongback, I will have enough room on the porch for someting 12' to 12 1/2 ' long. Even 13 would be pushing it. The porch is low enough that I can step down and back up to go from one side to the other; however, the shelter from rain / dew / etcl wouldn't be there for a longer canoe. The garage is out for this year--too many motorcycles and junk.

I thought of putting up a temporary shelter like a tarp or small tent-roof... but since I don't know how long it'll take me, I thought I'd do the first one someplace that if it takes more than a month or two I don't have to worry about it so much.

Keith

[Bladeforger]

Although another idea occurred to me... something that would fit and would be more of a "real canoe" than a double-paddle canoe...

What if a Ranger was set up with the stations closer together? In effect, shrunk down to about 83% of its normal length? Anybody ever done that??

[frugal]

We just finished glassing the outside of a Redbird design shorted from 17'-6" to 16' because my basment would not allow anything bigger to come out of it. (Lots of measuring confirmed 16' is okay.

We changed the stations from 12" to 10.75". We also had to reduce the measurement from station 7 to the end of the stem form by the same ratio 10.75/12. This worked very well for us. We compensated the reduced cargo capacity by adding an extra strip above the normal sheer line. If you plan on doing the same you should consider modifying the station forms to extrapolate where the curves will be above the sheer line. If you use a batten this is pretty straight forward. You will want to do this anyway at the stations near the end of the canoe and this is not clear in the book.

[Bladeforger]

We just finished glassing the outside of a Redbird design shorted from 17'-6" to 16' because my basment would not allow anything bigger to come out of it. (Lots of measuring confirmed 16' is okay.

We changed the stations from 12" to 10.75". We also had to reduce the measurement from station 7 to the end of the stem form by the same ratio 10.75/12. This worked very well for us. We compensated the reduced cargo capacity by adding an extra strip above the normal sheer line. If you plan on doing the same you should consider modifying the station forms to extrapolate where the curves will be above the sheer line. If you use a batten this is pretty straight forward. You will want to do this anyway at the stations near the end of the canoe and this is not clear in the book.

Thanks, Frugal! I, also, did some remeasuring; and I think 14' is do-able. I see from some reading that the Bear Mountain designs are OK shortened a foot. So a 14 foot Ranger may be in the cards.