Winisk, Kipawa, or Freedom 17?

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Ken
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:24 pm

Winisk, Kipawa, or Freedom 17?

Post by Ken »

All of these boats seem similar. Does anyone have insight as to which design is best? I am looking for a canoe that is primarily a double, but capable of being used solo as well. I would like a boat that is fast and responsive, able to be used on lakes and trips, but also capable of running a large river from time to time. I've narrowed things down to these three boats. Any suggestions?

Also, how do designs from Bear Mountain differ from John Winter's boats? Any help you might be willing to offer would be appreciated...
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pawistik
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:20 pm
Location: Saskatoon, SK

Post by pawistik »

Good question, the easiest part to address is between the Green Valley canoes - the Winisk is a full foot longer than the Kipawa. Otherwise I think these two boats are pretty close (sister designs?). The increased length contributes to increased payload in the Winisk.

Perhaps it would be better to compare the Freedom 17'9 to the Winisk, and the Freedom 17 to a Kipawa? (OK, I know the Freedom 17 falls smack in between the two). The Freedom 17 is fairly narrow at · Maximum beam 33.4",· Beam waterline 31.75", · Beam gunnel 32.5" when compared to the Winisk.

For myself, I'm thinking about my next boat and right now it's a toss up between the Winisk and the Freedom 17'9. In reality, I don't think we can go wrong with either canoe. My use would be for flatwater tripping and I would want it light, though not delicate. I have a new Royalex Swift Yukon 17'6" for bashing on rocks.

Bryan
Ken
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:24 pm

Post by Ken »

A couple more questions:

1. Can the Winisk double as both a solo and tandem canoe?
2. Can the Freedom 17 be used in white water or rivers?
Rick
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 9:23 am
Location: Bancroft, Ontario

Post by Rick »

1. Can the Winisk double as both a solo and tandem canoe?
Yes, it can be paddled solo, but the larger size will mean wind will affect it more than a smaller canoe that sits more deeply in the water. You also have to add a kneeling thwart or seat amidships to maintain level trim and so you can paddle more efficiently (asymmetrical designs shouldn't be paddled backwards like the symmetricals can be.)
2. Can the Freedom 17 be used in white water or rivers?
Yes and no... it is really a flatwater design, but it will handle mild whitewater if the water is deep enough. For rougher stuff, get a Royalex canoe designed for WW, it'll stand up to the rocks far better than the cedarstrip will.

How heavily are you going to load these canoes? Picking the right size to match the combined weights of canoe, paddlers and gear might help narrow things down, keeping in mind that an overloaded canoe makes for poor paddling.
Ken
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:24 pm

Post by Ken »

The weight will vary. I would love to have a boat that I can use solo from time to time, but one that will also hold another adult and child. I don't envision us using the boat for long, extended trips (i.e. more than 2-3 days). The combined weight of the two adults would not exceed 350lbs.
Rick
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 9:23 am
Location: Bancroft, Ontario

Post by Rick »

With two adulta and a child, the larger Winisk would be the better choice since there will be more room for a child and the weight of all three, plus canoe, plus any gear could exceed the 510 pounds that are the load limits in the F-17 and the Kipawa. You'll still be able to solo the Winisk from a kneeling thwart, and others have written that soloing worked out well. Happy paddling!
willo
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:48 pm
Location: Echo Bay ON.

Post by willo »

One point to make about buying plans for the Winisk is that you must agree to put a serial number and a supplied logo. Personally I don't like that.
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Moonman
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 11:24 am
Location: Vandorf, Ontario

Post by Moonman »

The winisk solos well provided you weigh down the bow - it is a buoyant boat. I use one of those big water bladders and just fill it when I put in. You will definitely need a kneeling thwart, the design calls for a thwart so if you intend to solo often, just bend it down a bit to provide for kneeling. I mainly solo it when fly fishing - it can get pushed around by the wind as Rick mentioned.

Both Steve Killing and John winters are excellent designers, and ultimately, you will be happy with either of your choices. I would say go bigger (winisk or freedom 17). The Kip is also a great boat but the extra space in the winisk also allows for the gear associated with kids and perhaps some extra leg room for the bow paddler. The winisk also has a lot of rocker for a flat water, go fast tripper, which I like. I find I always feel very comfortable in it when paddling big, rough water.

Moonman.
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Woodchuck
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:56 am
Location: Garden City, MI

Post by Woodchuck »

Don't sell out the Bear Mountain Boats 17' Nomad! Love it...
Joe "Woodchuck" Gledhill
Garden City, MI
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