Building without staples - questions

[Kerry]

Hi all,

I'm starting to prepare my station molds and I'm really thinking that I might like to try building my canoe without staples. It might be a little ambitious for the first time, but I think I can manage it and spending the extra time doesn't really bother me. I've got a couple of different ideas that might make this process a little easier, and I thought I'd like to run them by you folks for some opinions. So....

First, does anyone use CA glue for boat building? In woodworking, a dab of CA with or without accelerator can sometimes be used in place of a clamp in an awkward spot. After the particular job is finished the pieces joined by CA can be easily taken apart as long as not too much was used. So I was thinking when planking a hull, why couldn't one use a drop of CA here and there along the length of a strip and a shot of accelerator to speed things up, instead of using so many of the the jigs/clamps shown in Canoecraft? This got me wondering as well how important is the white glue between strips at all, structurally speaking? Would the hull be significantly weakened if one were to not use glue between the strips and depend on the bond created when the epoxy is applied? I'm not courageous enough (dumb enough??) to try this, but just wondered.

Second, it looks like the wooden "L" shaped jigs clamped to the molds will be slightly awkward to move, and position with C-clamps one station at a time. Now, never having done this I certainly can't say - it just kind of looks that way. Would a clamp/jig like this:
[IMG:407:219]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/z ... dclamp.jpg[/img]
at each station be any easier? Each mold would have a T-nut in it's centre, and a knob on a shaft threaded into it. The jig arm would be slotted to allow it to move in and out as well as rotate around the threaded shaft. Once in place the knob would just be tightened to hold the arm in place.

Thanks in advance for any opinions or suggestions,
Kerry

[thechrisperkins]

Kerry,

I built my first boat staple-less. It is not as hard as it might initially seem. Although, it will take a little longer. My Redbird had some strips that had almost 90 degrees of twist in them from the floor center to the bow/stern that required the glue to fully set before I could remove my clamps. On some day's I could only add one strip per side.

As for the L-Clamp idea. Great Idea! I did something similar to what you are proposing, but I found I had to move the "centroid" for the bolt to maintain a surface that was parallel to the strip I was clamping. It was most readily apparent in the center stations (0,1,2,&3).

The other indespensable clamp I used was some heavy twine, anchored to the strongback and spiral wrapped around the strips. It pulled the strips to the form, and to each other verrrrrrry nicely.

[IMG:1152:864]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/t ... mping2.jpg[/img]
You can see more of my construction photos at the photobucket site. OBTW, the string clamp works best bead side up-cove side down.
http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/thechrisperkins/

Chris

[pwstndrf]

Kerry,

I just finsihed my first ever canoe, stapleless. I'd say to you, GO FOR IT!

I have a two page step-by step written explaination of how I did it using Rubberbands and 1" Wide cloth straps. I can send it to you (it's in M/S Word Format). Need a E-mail address or maybe instructions how to attach a word doc to a posting, Glen???

You can view a couple of pictures of this technique. See my recent posting "Finally in the Water".. The link is there to my photobucket pic's (pwstndrf-16 peterborough).

Best of Luck,

phil w.

[Glen Smith]

On a first boat I would definitely say to go staple-less and use anything that works. A hot-air gun helps a lot in pre-bending, twisting and otherwise shaping strips before installing them. It makes it much easier to get them to stay in place.

To attach a word doc you just do a "copy" from your word document and "paste" it into the text of your forum posting. It should work.

As for that "L" shaped jig, it looks good but you should have two per mold so you can build up the strips evenly on each side. Otherwise you will have to constantly remove the jig to install on the other side so you can install one strip then switch it back again.

[ealger]

Kerry, your idea of using CA is intriguing. My experience with CA is it usually goes where you don't want it. Scraping it clean would be interesting as well.

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/ ... edia=image

Here's my offering: No string, or rubber bands, no nails. Just some spring clamps and blue masking tape. I tried the horseshoe clamps but for me it was too slow and I couldn't get the strip tight enough before the glue would setup.

Ed...

[Glen Smith]

Kerry, not using any wood glue at all between strips would be a time-saver. However, if the strips are just held together by a few tack spots of ca glue you will run into problems during the fairing stage. A power sander shakes the heck out of the strips and if they aren't bonded along the full length you will possibly end up with damaged coves and an uneven surface. The wood glue also prevents the epoxy from oozing through and making a total mess on the inside of the boat. Once the boat has been glassed you could remove all traces of wood glue (if it could be done) and the boat wouldn't be weakened but the glue is needed during all the construction phases.

[Rick in Pender Harbour]

I use 25 lb test monofilament line strip my boats. Just like the twine, but you can leave the line in place until the whole hull is stripped, then cut along the shear, and pull out the bits of line. I have to pass the line over the screws in the forms to add a bit of pull toward the forms so that the hull doesn't bulge as you work up to the keell line. Strip bead up, and you cannot see where the fishing line was removed.
rgds

Rick

[hoz]

I used packing tape to hold my strips. The kind with strings in it. Just loop it up and over a new strip and attach to the inside o rbring down to the gunnel for added torque. Between some moulds an original strip lasted the entire canoe. I would add more tape to pieces when they became too short to reach around the hull.

[Kerry]

Wow, what a lot of great responses. Thanks. Looks like I will for sure be building this canoe without staples.

not using any wood glue at all between strips would be a time-saver. However, if the strips are just held together by a few tack spots of ca glue you will run into problems during the fairing stage. A power sander shakes the heck out of the strips....

Ahhh yes, thanks for that Glen. I just knew there had to be some real world reason that this would be a bad move.

use 25 lb test monofilament line strip my boats. Just like the twine, but you can leave the line in place until the whole hull is stripped....

That's pretty neat Rick. Do you find that planking bead up is messier than bead down, or is there much difference?

Thanks pwstndrf - I'll pm you an address.

I got to spend some time on this project this long weekend and got mys strongback finished, steam bent the inner stems and got my station molds in place. Now I have to leave it alone for a couple of weeks while I go on vacation . On a bright note - a fellow I normally buy hardwood from is planning a trip into BC and said he will pick up some clear cedar boards for me. Hopefully he'll have them for me when I get back from holidays.

Thanks again,
Kerry

[Rick in Pender Harbour]

Hi Kerry,
the only problem with bead up is that you have to have a holder for the strip while you apply the glue. I have a couple of u-shaped brackets on the top of my forms. I'm working on a cosine wherry right now, using fishing line, so far, so good.

rgds Rick

[Tommy G]

For what it is worth I recommend going stapless as well. I am in the process of building my first Prospector and I too am doing it without staples. First I was using the clamping system that was suggested in Canoecraft. I have, however decided to improvise by using old bicycle tubes. I connect them to the inside of the stations and clamp them to the bottom of the strongback. It works great. Only thing is you need to protect your cove with a small peice of stripping between the tube and the new strip. Good luck...

Tommy G

[Ray_B]

Greetings All, Real interesting & timely thread as I'd pretty much decided to build my
17' Traveler strapless.

Question: Yesterday I went to HomeDepot and bought 15 Pony Clamps and a bunch of other things. The clamps were 2" and seems that is more than adequate, but did I get enough of them?

Another Question: I'm going to be working on an uneven concrete floor. I'm going to
epoxy some wood blocks to the floor for the Strongback Legs to be mounted on and leveled up. What kind of epoxy to use?? I not purchased any for my Traveler yet and don't know a great deal about the stuff.

Today clearing a workspace in my cellar and it's becoming obvious that I need to add
a couple of light fixtures, probably fluorescence 8 footers.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide,
Ray

[canoeblderinmt]

Ray,
The first rule of woodworking is: You can NEVER have enough clamps! You will probably want at least one per station (mold), and a couple for in between to handle those sticky places rounding the bilge.

For gluing the blocks to the floor, I'd just get some 5 or 15 minute epoxy at the hardware store. The kind that comes in the plunger tubes should work just fine. Be sure the floor is clean, and wipe with some Acetone and allow to dry before you start to ensure no oils will mess up your adhesion.

Get probably twice as many lights as you think you will need. I was under lit on my last boat and found some flaws I could have easily corrected if I had seen them while the boat was in the shop.

Good luck on your project,

Greg

[ealger]

Ray, I use spring clamps along with 1/4" x 1/4" grooves cut in my molds. I have 24 Babco #302 spring clamps and about 18 Babco 2 1/2" and 3" C clamps along with some 4" C clamps from Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight has nice 3" and 4" C clamps which can be picked up for about $2 on sale. Add a half dozen 12" and 18" "Quick Grip" clamps and you're ready to go.
As you start to build, you'll find out what you really need...
Ed...

[Dell Littlefield]

Instead of epoxy to fasten down your strongback blocks, consider using ordinary silicone caulk. I fastened my strongback in place with it and it held fine. When finished, it pried off and was easily cleaned up. No trace.