Should I start now?

[Rich from Rockford]

I'm all set to lay the first strip on my Prospector, but the calendar makes me nervous. Knowing that I'll have a busy fall with kid's in soccer and such, I'm worried about how much progress I can make before it gets too cold in my unheated garage - is it okay to let the unfinished hull sit in the garage over winter?

I would think I could at least get the hull stripped, but probably not fiberglassed by the end of October. Also, I'd probably have to move the strongback (that I so meticulously set up) so that I can use my garage for parking in (for a change). I'm tempted to just move aside my strongback now and take it up in the spring, rather than risking damage over the winter.

Any thoughts? Am I being pessimistic? (or optimistic?) I'm in Southwest Michigan, building my 1st canoe with staples.

Thanks,
Rich Kipke

[cecbell]

Rich,
I have the same situation. Two of the three canoes I've built have been kept unfinished in the unheated garage over winter. The hulls were stripped but not fiberglassed. I left the staples in until I could get to it in the spring to start sanding and fiberglassing. And in one case, I parked the car beside it during the winter. No problems (New Hampshire winters).
What problems I did experience had to do with the humidity changeover from winter dry to late spring humid (!). It definitely affects the dimensions of the cedar. But that kind of thing, if it's going to happen at all, will be a problem with any protracted project. I figure any work done now is all to the good.

[Michel vd Hoven]

I have no experience on this with staples but I would be concerned about corrosion of staples if left too long. If staples start to corrode they will leave rust stains in the wood around the staple holes which you can not remove.
Perhaps you should consider stainless steel staples, or remove staples after the glue has dried...

I know in my country carbon steel nails and stapels will corrode within one winter, but that is because I live in a relative humid region with lots of rain in fall and winter. Don't know about yours...

Michel, The Netherlands

[camper1]

i looked into this matter fairly deep before begining my project. that humidity factor that's mentioned translates into possible waves in the hull due to wood expansion. gil gilpatrick's canoe was ruined when he tried storing over the winter.

sooo.... what i'm doing is leaving it on the forms but fiberglassing the outside. won't go anywhere then for sure. staples won't hold it tight against the pressure.

[Patricks Dad]

I would think that glassing just the outside would be the worst thing you could do. It would absorb moisture only on the inside and maximize the opportunity for warping the hull. I've seen unglassed hulls sit in a storage garage for years (mid-Wisconsin) without problems. The thought of staples rusting is a good thought. I don't have any experience on that topic as I've only built stapleless.

[camper1]

but if i get the dehumififier going as spring arrives, i should be all set.

no?

[AlanWS]

camper1:
I am familiar with Gilpatrick's book, but not with any discussion of problems storing a partly finished canoe over the winter. Can you give me a reference where I might find that description?

Rich from Rockford:
If you do store for the winter after glassing only the outside, make sure you do not take it off the forms! Humidity swelling the wood can cause the hull to buckle and crease. This is not theoretical, but after 35 years, the memory is no longer as painful as it once was.

I would expect storing it on the forms before glassing to be no problem. If staples cause a problem by restricting wood motion, they could be pulled this fall, leaving the hull on the forms. Then the wood can expand and contract considerably without distortion. It would also address any question of staples rusting.

But don't dismiss the possibility of using a space heater to warm the garage enough to glass the inside even late this fall. I did that a few years ago, and just started another one a couple weeks ago in my unheated Wisconsin garage, and hope to get the inside glassed, though we are working sporadically. I would imagine humidity in southern Michigan would be extremely low for most of the winter, and only increase in the spring as it does here. If you are worried about moving the strongback and distorting the canoe, just make several level lines along and across the strongback, and shim them to level after moving. With strips on it's pretty stable.

If while it's cold outside you do warm the garage with a space heater to glass the inside, that produces a very low relative humidity, and you wind up sealing the wood into the glass in a very dry state. That can make your canoe several pounds lighter than if you had glassed it on a warm humid day.

[camper1]

camper1:
I am familiar with Gilpatrick's book, but not with any discussion of problems storing a partly finished canoe over the winter. Can you give me a reference where I might find that description?

Rich from Rockford:
If you do store for the winter after glassing only the outside, make sure you do not take it off the forms! Humidity swelling the wood can cause the hull to buckle and crease. This is not theoretical, but after 35 years, the memory is no longer as painful as it once was.

it's not in the book, it's what i learned through discussion with him over e-mail.

alan, in your opinion, will i be all set in glassing the outside and leaving it over the winter? as stated previously, it will remain on the forms. i don't have the ability to sand and glass the inside, as i'm away at college. i only ask, because someone above thinks it will be a worse choice then simply leaving the outside un-glassed. glassing the outside happens this coming friday unless otherwise notied.


edit: i will note that gilpatrick had his canoe stored OUTSIDE, under a roof, and not in an unheated garage.

brad

[Rich from Rockford]

Thanks for the ideas. Humidity in the winter here is no problem. Quite dry. I'm going to go for it and hope for the best. I'm confident enough that I'll be able to close in the hull - then maybe if I run out of the good weather, I can look into borrowing a heater for glassing. It sounds like it isn't a unique problem to let the partially finished hull sit over the winter. I guess I'll just have to be careful moving the strongback to make sure that it stays level and untwisted.

Rich

[AlanWS]

Thanks for the info camper1. In my opinion, a boat that has been glassed and left on the forms is likely to be fine over the winter, as is one unglassed but preferably with no staples in it. This assumes it does not actually get wet. I would guess that staples were the problem in the unglassed Gilpatrick case, since it should be free enough to expand and contract on the forms otherwise. It could have even gotten wet.

That is only my opinion, and I have not tried leaving a partly glassed boat on the forms, though I may this winter.

The one I had problems with was stored upright in slings in an unheated building, glassed only on the outside. I think the roof leaked and water got inside, as the very bottom was the only place distorted, and it actually inverted and creased.

But humidity can also swell the wood, and glass won't stretch. I would expect the forms to be very able to restrain the motion, but on drying, wood that has been restrained from swelling may have been compressed beyond its elastic limit, which would cause slight cracks to appear on drying and shrinking. I would consider that an inconvenience, rather than a disaster, but opinions vary.

[Fish]

If your garage is mostly water tight, ie. no puddles from rain or whatnot, try putting those Dry-Z-Aire things around the garage.

It's calcium cloride and soaks up humidity. Although you'd probably need at least 4 of them.