Alternate woodworking joint for seats

[ruso]

I'm wondering if any of you have done some other kind of joint for your seats. I can do mortise and tenon joints, but my chisel work on the mortise always leave a little to be desired. How about a lap joint or bridle joint reinforced with dowels? The material I have is ash. Oh yeah, is there a free set of instructions out there on how to cane the seats? Thanks

Ruso

[Glen Smith]

When I make mortice and tenon joints, I always cheat. :embarassed

I use a Forstner bit to make the mortice then I use a chisel to clean the sides of the mortice but I leave the corners round. When I make the tenon, I round off the ends with a rasp so they fit into the round-cornered mortices. :big grin

You can find caning instructions here: http://www.basketweaving.com/cane_webbi ... ctions.htm

And here: http://krypton.mnsu.edu/~wayne/Caning/ChairCaning.htm

Also here: http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~vista/html_pubs ... weave.html

Enjoy your project.

Edited: I forgot to mention, I have a book by Susan Van Leuvan called "Illustrated Guide to Wood Strip Canoe Building" in which she shows how to assemble a seat frame using butt joints and dowels. The joints are glued with epoxy. I tried this on one boat and it was an easy method of obtaining a decent seat.

[ealger]

The mortice and tenon is tried and true. Make the joint a nice slip fit as not to squeeze out all the epoxy.
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/ ... tor=bottom
Ed...
PS: For a little extra show, add a rosewood round peg at each joint.

[ruso]

Glen, thanks for the links concerning the caning.

I wish I had a dedicated mortiser or even a drill press, then the mortise and tenon joint would be easy. My most accurate tool for joints is my table saw which is why I'd like to try something different. If anyone has tried an alternative and had success please let me know. Thanks again.

Ruso

[ealger]

Ruso, craftsmen of old never knew of dedicated machines to fit mortice and tenons. If you're willing to settle for straight, right angle joints, the tenons can be cut on a table saw with some careful cutting. The mortice can be cut with a 5/16" forstner bit and cleaned up with a chisle as Glen wrote.
Cut the mortice first, then cut the tenons to fit. Practice on scrap first!

If you're not confortable standing narrow pieces on end, to cut tenons, lay the piece down and nibble away with the piece against the T guide with the fence out of the way. It takes practice and patience. (Caution should be taken when cutting tenons on a table saw, in standing pieces on end. Free hand cutting is dangerous and not recommended. Do some reading on the proper use of jigs and fixtures.)

Fitting for dowels is also perhaps as frustrating as cutting tenons. There are, however, inexpensive dowel hole locators available to assist in fitting for dowels.
Ed...

[ruso]

Ed, yes I was aware that the old timers created these joints with a chisel. I've made a almost a dozen or so myself which is how I know about my limited ability. Thanks for encouragement and the suggestions on how to make them. I'm concerned more with strength here and if you can make them with butt joints and dowels then a bridle joint or lap joint reinfored with dowels should be fine.

Ruso

[ealger]

Ruso, I didn't mean to be condescending at all. For me, I enjoy the technical part of canoe building more than the paddling. Wierd hud? I'm sure which ever method you pick, it'll come out just fine. Post some pictures. We'd like to see them.
Ed...

[Roger C]

If your table saw is your most accurate tool my advice is to cheat on the mortise and create a grove the length of the seat and the fill the gaps not occupied with the tenons with a narrow piece of wood taken from the same stock. if you are accurate in your cut the filler should fit snug and once sanded should be virtually invisble.

Pics of my rough and finished seats are at
www.rogerscanoe.blogspot.com
It doesn't show the construction but the resluts are there.

[AlanWS]

Gilpatrick's book mentions lap joints as an option, and he's overseen builiding of enough canoes that if they were structurally too unsound, he'd know. A plunge router can cut clean mortises pretty easily. I used the Frid jig for cutting seat mortises. Here's a link describing the jig: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/inde ... stom&ID=29

One advantage of an inserted tenon (where you cut a mortise into both pieces and glue a piece of tenon stock into both) is that it is easy to make joints at angles other than 90 degrees. Just cut the mortise perpendicular to the face you are joining. It really is not hard. Making angled mortise and and tenoned canoe seats was the first thing I did with my first router.

[sedges]

I have have made dozens of seats with lap joints and have never had one fail. On 3/4 inch stock I make the lap 1/4 inch. Since the cross pieces really bear little weight, this preserves 2/3s of the rail thickness. It is simple and fast. This seat is over 20 years old and has seen hard use.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/s ... e_seat.jpg