Grain of cedar
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- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:11 pm
Grain of cedar
Hello All, Hopefully a straight forward question-Ted in Canoecraft states "flat grain are harder to sand etc...." Is it possible to mix flat grain and edge grain on th same boat? Best regards Mel packham
- Glen Smith
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- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
Hi Mel, yes you can mix the grains but you will be creating more work for yourself. However, the flat grain can be quite spectacular so it might be worthwhile.
You would have to use a cabinet scraper for the initial fairing to reduce tearout to a minimum then you should use a fairing board for all of the sanding so you don't create an unfair surface.
You would have to use a cabinet scraper for the initial fairing to reduce tearout to a minimum then you should use a fairing board for all of the sanding so you don't create an unfair surface.
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grain of cedar
i used all flat grain because i did,nt know any better. i did,nt have any tearout when i sanded and the highly figured grain looks great
- Glen Smith
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 9:08 am
- Location: Baie-St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
Actually, sanding flat grain won't usually result in tearout. Using a spokeshave or a plane will cause tearout. Sanding is the way to go. However, if using a R.O.S. you have to be careful so you don't sand out the softer wood and leave the grain higher. That is why I recommend using a fairing board.
My most recent kayak was done with flat grain cedar. Glen is right when he says a fairing board is the way to go. A spokeshave would have totally ruined it. I have several different lengths of fairing boards and used them all. I started out with 100 grit paper and kept working down/up to 800 grit. I never did use my ROS.
- Jeff in Farmington, MI
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:19 pm
- Location: Farmington, Michigan, USA
Here's a pic of some flat grain strips (about 2 3/4 in.wide) in the center portion of the front and back decks:
http://s124.photobucket.com/albums/p15/ ... opView.jpg
Click on the Full Size tab for a better view. The wood is NWC. The narrower strips around the side and in the bottom are normal edge grain. I don't know if this is any help but it should show the difference.
http://s124.photobucket.com/albums/p15/ ... opView.jpg
Click on the Full Size tab for a better view. The wood is NWC. The narrower strips around the side and in the bottom are normal edge grain. I don't know if this is any help but it should show the difference.
Charles Campbell
- Larry in Champaign
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- Location: Champaign, IL
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Here is a photo of my new canoe's bottom which has a quite a few flat grain strips. The wood I had to work with was the best of the poor boards available from one of the Big Box stores. The picture is rather large (1.32MB) to show the detail.
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/lwest/www/6%2 ... iq=-btfbi4
Awhile back I posted a test of the 3.2oz/style 1678 fiberglass cloth from Thayercraft.
http://www.thayercraft.com/Style%201678.htm
The test looked promising so I bought a 200 yd. roll. In this photo your are looking through 4 layers of cloth with three coats of US Composites 635 thin resin and their 2:1 slow hardener. The results are very good. You do need a fiberglass roller to work out the bubbles during wetout. This was not a huge problem since I used a roller on my first canoe which had two layers of 6oz cloth. I spread 12oz of epoxy from sheer to sheer amidship and then rolled out the bubbles. After repeating this wetout/roller process adjacent to the first, I squegeed the first section and then wetout the other adjacent side. I continued this leap-frogging procedure, back and forth, till I reached the ends. I formed the cloth to the hull prior to wetout and it conformed smoothly to the coumpound-complex curves of this canoe. I didn't have to deal with wrinkles during the wetout. I put three ovelapping bias cut strips on the stems between the wetout and fill coats. These too conformed very nicely to the hull. The big epoxy savings with this cloth comes in the fill coats - it takes very little! For those considering using this cloth, just make sure you have a fiberglass roller and you'll be well pleased with the results. I'm very anxious to see the hull sanded smooth, but that will have to wait till the epoxy fully cures - next weeked!
Larry
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/lwest/www/6%2 ... iq=-btfbi4
Awhile back I posted a test of the 3.2oz/style 1678 fiberglass cloth from Thayercraft.
http://www.thayercraft.com/Style%201678.htm
The test looked promising so I bought a 200 yd. roll. In this photo your are looking through 4 layers of cloth with three coats of US Composites 635 thin resin and their 2:1 slow hardener. The results are very good. You do need a fiberglass roller to work out the bubbles during wetout. This was not a huge problem since I used a roller on my first canoe which had two layers of 6oz cloth. I spread 12oz of epoxy from sheer to sheer amidship and then rolled out the bubbles. After repeating this wetout/roller process adjacent to the first, I squegeed the first section and then wetout the other adjacent side. I continued this leap-frogging procedure, back and forth, till I reached the ends. I formed the cloth to the hull prior to wetout and it conformed smoothly to the coumpound-complex curves of this canoe. I didn't have to deal with wrinkles during the wetout. I put three ovelapping bias cut strips on the stems between the wetout and fill coats. These too conformed very nicely to the hull. The big epoxy savings with this cloth comes in the fill coats - it takes very little! For those considering using this cloth, just make sure you have a fiberglass roller and you'll be well pleased with the results. I'm very anxious to see the hull sanded smooth, but that will have to wait till the epoxy fully cures - next weeked!
Larry
I just finished the intial sanding of my Freedom 15 which has a mix of flat grain and edge grain. I did the initial sanding with my ROS and 60 grit. So far it seems to be working out very well. The 60 grit takes down high spots really fast so I don't need to use a plane or spokeshave for anything on the hull. Once the highspots are taken down, even with 60 grit the ROS doesn't take the wood off too fast.
I haven't noticed any problems at all with flat vs. edge grain. So far it is sanding all the same. On the bottom of the hull where it is really flat I find that using a cabinet scraper is very useful. I don't think this has to do with the grain though.
You'll find a bunch of photos in the links in my signature and I'll post again later today or tomorrow once I get my latest photos uploaded.
EDIT: please note that my workmanship may not correspond to the level at which you wish to achieve! So take my advice with a grain of salt. I think I'm firmly in between the two camps of "getting it done" and "fine woodcraft built to near perfection"
Doug
I haven't noticed any problems at all with flat vs. edge grain. So far it is sanding all the same. On the bottom of the hull where it is really flat I find that using a cabinet scraper is very useful. I don't think this has to do with the grain though.
You'll find a bunch of photos in the links in my signature and I'll post again later today or tomorrow once I get my latest photos uploaded.
EDIT: please note that my workmanship may not correspond to the level at which you wish to achieve! So take my advice with a grain of salt. I think I'm firmly in between the two camps of "getting it done" and "fine woodcraft built to near perfection"
Doug