Hello...
I built my first canoe last winter - a Freedom 17. I enjoyed several trips in it this season, including a couple of solo adventures. However, I found that the Freedom 17 is just a little too much boat for me to solo in - (but then again, maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that I need to build a second canoe!)
At any rate, I've done some research, and have narrowed my new canoe selection down to three models - a Freedom 15'3" Solo, a Merlin 156, or an Osprey. I'm partial to the Bear Mountain design - (since I love my Freedom 17).
I'm a little concerned though, about the tumblehome chine. What worries me is: a) does the chine introduce much complexity in stripping around it? b) does it lead to hassles in glassing - especially the inside? c) will it introduce a lot of millwork in shaping and attaching the gunwales? and d) will there be any affect on hanging the seat, thwarts and removeable yoke?
There's not much information in the forum about the Freedom 15'3", nor is there much information about canoes with a tumblehome chine. Any thoughts, advice or encouragement about my concerns would really be appreciated. In fact, any thoughts on any of the models I've mentioned would be welcome as well.
Thanks...
Bill
Next Boat - Freedom 15'3" Solo perhaps...
Hi Bill
I think you've touched on the main reason, alot of Freedom 15'3"boats have'nt appeared on the net.
Most everyone is affraid of tackling the shoudered tumblehome.
The problems I see involve sanding and glassing.
Sanding, I feel. in the area of the shoulder shoud be done by hand,to avoid thinning of the hull.
While laying up the strips, I woud use a minimal amount of glue, after all, the epoxy will soak into the joints and provide a very strong bond !
Glassing, poses to me the biggest obstacle. Will the cloth need to be lapped on the inside?
Will it lay down without wrinkles, on the outside as well as the inside ?
Will I need to lap the cloth for extra strength ?
I don't believe the gunnels will be a problem, and the hull will be stong enough to to hang the seat from the gunnel.
I think we're all waiting for someone who has been there and done that to chime in !
Jim
I think you've touched on the main reason, alot of Freedom 15'3"boats have'nt appeared on the net.
Most everyone is affraid of tackling the shoudered tumblehome.
The problems I see involve sanding and glassing.
Sanding, I feel. in the area of the shoulder shoud be done by hand,to avoid thinning of the hull.
While laying up the strips, I woud use a minimal amount of glue, after all, the epoxy will soak into the joints and provide a very strong bond !
Glassing, poses to me the biggest obstacle. Will the cloth need to be lapped on the inside?
Will it lay down without wrinkles, on the outside as well as the inside ?
Will I need to lap the cloth for extra strength ?
I don't believe the gunnels will be a problem, and the hull will be stong enough to to hang the seat from the gunnel.
I think we're all waiting for someone who has been there and done that to chime in !
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
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Bryan Hansel
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Grand Marais, MN
- Contact:
I built a Soul Mate with shouldered tumblehome. It was slightly harder to strip, but the Freedom looks easier (I have the plans). For the Soul Mate we stripped each way from the turn of the tumblehome. I doubt there will be any huge issues with glassing, we didn't run into any doing the Soul Mate.
BTW, the Merlin has plenty of tumblehome to contend with as well.
I was going to build one right away, but have held off waiting to hear about the performance of the canoe. If it's too strong of tracker, I'm not interested in doing the work.
BTW, the Merlin has plenty of tumblehome to contend with as well.
I was going to build one right away, but have held off waiting to hear about the performance of the canoe. If it's too strong of tracker, I'm not interested in doing the work.
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Karl Huebner
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:59 pm
- Location: Delaware Ohio
Re: Next Boat - Freedom 15'3" Solo perhaps...
I'm a little concerned though, about the tumblehome chine. What worries me is: a) does the chine introduce much complexity in stripping around it?
I did a mock 18" segment of the tumblehome. I copied stations 4 and 5, cut the forms for those stations from ½” particle board , mounted them on a simulated straightback, put cedar strips between the stations, sanded the strips then glassed it.
I too, was concerned about how to make the curve and glass it. The first side I followed the pattern outline by Nick Schade in the November – December Wooden Boat magazine article (Building the Nymph, a 10’ double paddle canoe). The other side I went and put the two strips fairly close to each other (the butted against each other for the 18”… I did not try to make it perfect) and laid another strip on top of them which I shaped into the curve. This three strip method appears to be more dramatic than the two strip method. I will not be able to attest whether it is stronger but it will be (slightly) heaver.
b) does it lead to hassles in glassing - especially the inside?
I wasn’t too concerned about the inside but I will test glassing the inside on the 18” section. Figure at the worst I can do it in two stages, overlapping the lower with the upper.
I am committed to building one or two of these canoes this winter. I was supposed to have it done by now but life (specifically work) got in the way.
I did a mock 18" segment of the tumblehome. I copied stations 4 and 5, cut the forms for those stations from ½” particle board , mounted them on a simulated straightback, put cedar strips between the stations, sanded the strips then glassed it.
I too, was concerned about how to make the curve and glass it. The first side I followed the pattern outline by Nick Schade in the November – December Wooden Boat magazine article (Building the Nymph, a 10’ double paddle canoe). The other side I went and put the two strips fairly close to each other (the butted against each other for the 18”… I did not try to make it perfect) and laid another strip on top of them which I shaped into the curve. This three strip method appears to be more dramatic than the two strip method. I will not be able to attest whether it is stronger but it will be (slightly) heaver.
b) does it lead to hassles in glassing - especially the inside?
I wasn’t too concerned about the inside but I will test glassing the inside on the 18” section. Figure at the worst I can do it in two stages, overlapping the lower with the upper.
I am committed to building one or two of these canoes this winter. I was supposed to have it done by now but life (specifically work) got in the way.
Hi Karl
It's great to test before you build, but I think it would be better to put an arc on the strips like in a real set up.
Also 18 inches is not like glassing a full length hull with a one piece cloth.
How would you fit the third strip ? Would you modify the forms, and actually lay it on first?
Thanks for sharing your progress !
Jim
It's great to test before you build, but I think it would be better to put an arc on the strips like in a real set up.
Also 18 inches is not like glassing a full length hull with a one piece cloth.
How would you fit the third strip ? Would you modify the forms, and actually lay it on first?
Thanks for sharing your progress !
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
-
Karl Huebner
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:59 pm
- Location: Delaware Ohio
Jim
Also 18 inches is not like glassing a full length hull with a one piece cloth.
Absolutely. But it will give you an idea of how to go about solving the problem.
Put a lid on the contraption you get a wanigan... make it near the bow you can create a slide-in base to mount a mast in for sailing.
How would you fit the third strip ? Would you modify the forms, and actually lay it on first?
I found a softer piece of wood, glued it onto the edge of the strips and shaped it. The interior was as "designed."
BTW, my canoes and kayaks are not works of art. They are functional. I envy those who can do the furniture grade construction. I went to the 2008 Rendezvous in Peterbourgh and was simply amazed. I must have taken close to 500 10 meg pictures. That one that Glen highlights in the sticky note is a beauty. My wife wants one.
Karl
Also 18 inches is not like glassing a full length hull with a one piece cloth.
Absolutely. But it will give you an idea of how to go about solving the problem.
Put a lid on the contraption you get a wanigan... make it near the bow you can create a slide-in base to mount a mast in for sailing.
How would you fit the third strip ? Would you modify the forms, and actually lay it on first?
I found a softer piece of wood, glued it onto the edge of the strips and shaped it. The interior was as "designed."
BTW, my canoes and kayaks are not works of art. They are functional. I envy those who can do the furniture grade construction. I went to the 2008 Rendezvous in Peterbourgh and was simply amazed. I must have taken close to 500 10 meg pictures. That one that Glen highlights in the sticky note is a beauty. My wife wants one.
Karl
Hi Kurt
It most not have been Hurricane season, when that photo was taken !
I've stripped a few Bruce Kunz Merlins, But the tumblehome is quite different on the Freedom 15'3".
On the freedom, you would start stripping at the shoulder instead of the sheerline, like the Merlin.
What did you have on the line ?
Jim
It most not have been Hurricane season, when that photo was taken !
I've stripped a few Bruce Kunz Merlins, But the tumblehome is quite different on the Freedom 15'3".
On the freedom, you would start stripping at the shoulder instead of the sheerline, like the Merlin.
What did you have on the line ?
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
