Quick question for those of you who have had your boats in the water for a while.... Have your gunnles held up fine with varnish alone, or would you recommend a single coat of epoxy over everything prior to varnishing?
My gunnles are sanded and ready to go, but I'm wrestling if I should put off the varnishing for another week so I can give a coat of epoxy and allow that to cure before I begin the varnishing sequence...
Thoughts from anyone?
Thanks,
Terry
Gunwale condition over time
Are you going to be subjecting your canoe to hard use... most strippers are not, so an epoxy base for varnish shouldn't be necessary.
Another question, are the outwales going to be fastened by screws or epoxied in... with screws and easy removal for outwale replacement, epoxy/varnish may be overkill. The inner surface of a removable outwale should be varnished or epoxied to waterproof that tight joint that can hold water and cause rot.
I went with easily removed, screwed-on outwales and still epoxied three coats under three coats of varnish. They get some abuse. Still no need to revarnish after three year's use, seems to be more durable than varnish alone... anyway, good luck!
Recommended methods and applications:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/
Another question, are the outwales going to be fastened by screws or epoxied in... with screws and easy removal for outwale replacement, epoxy/varnish may be overkill. The inner surface of a removable outwale should be varnished or epoxied to waterproof that tight joint that can hold water and cause rot.
I went with easily removed, screwed-on outwales and still epoxied three coats under three coats of varnish. They get some abuse. Still no need to revarnish after three year's use, seems to be more durable than varnish alone... anyway, good luck!
Recommended methods and applications:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/
To date, since 1989, I glue and screw my inwhales, and glue my outwhales, with epoxy.
My gunnels are cut to cap the hull. The outwhale is cut with a 1/8" lip that coves the hull.
I've always used WATCO, but see no problems with varnish or a polyurethane.
I've not had any problems with rot, because moisture cannot get between the hull and the gunnels.
I use ash for nearly all of my trim.
Good luck !
Jim
My gunnels are cut to cap the hull. The outwhale is cut with a 1/8" lip that coves the hull.
I've always used WATCO, but see no problems with varnish or a polyurethane.
I've not had any problems with rot, because moisture cannot get between the hull and the gunnels.
I use ash for nearly all of my trim.
Good luck !
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
Thanks Fellas!
My outwales are glued the entire length, and screwed only at the decks. Inwales are glued and screwed (screws removed after epoxy set up). I think I might just run with varnish, instead of a combination of epoxy as a base and varnish on top of that. Outwale and inwale are Ash. I don't intend to be abusive when using my canoe. I was more concerned with use over time. I do intend to use it very often.
Jim- What type of WATCO do you use? How often do you re-apply? And, how often do you use your canoe? (Sorry for all the questions, but I'm now entertaining the idea of WATCO as well...)
Also, can you see any issues with the WATCO and the exposed strips of cedar sandwiched by the epoxy along the sheer? (Possible delamination over time???)
Any other thoughts?
Thanks for the help.
Terry
My outwales are glued the entire length, and screwed only at the decks. Inwales are glued and screwed (screws removed after epoxy set up). I think I might just run with varnish, instead of a combination of epoxy as a base and varnish on top of that. Outwale and inwale are Ash. I don't intend to be abusive when using my canoe. I was more concerned with use over time. I do intend to use it very often.
Jim- What type of WATCO do you use? How often do you re-apply? And, how often do you use your canoe? (Sorry for all the questions, but I'm now entertaining the idea of WATCO as well...)
Also, can you see any issues with the WATCO and the exposed strips of cedar sandwiched by the epoxy along the sheer? (Possible delamination over time???)
Any other thoughts?
Thanks for the help.
Terry
Hi Terry
I started out using WATCO in the green and white can, it was an exterior grade, but now I use the Teak, and it's in the blue and white container. Purchased at Menards for about $8 a quart.
I start by wiping on a coat after a 1/2hr, I wipe off excess. The next coat is left on to dry. It takes a long time to dry
I'm real lax when it comes to refinishing ! As far as use, I'm mostly a day tripper, but about once a year, I spend 4 or 5 days in the BWCA.
.
Most of the problems I experience are in the area where the gunnels ride on my wood canoe rack. I reapply in these areas before over wintering. By Spring they are good to go. Again the canoe rack while traveling causes the most harm.
In your situation, it's a toss up. Watco or varnish(polyurethane).
As for the sandwiched hull with the the cedar strip exposed, and binging built with epoxy, you should'nt have any trouble. This is one of the reasons I went to capping the hull with the gunnels.
One advantage of the Watco over varnish, is varnish will show scratches as a white mark. Watco won't.
Good Luck ! And have fun on the water!
Jim
I started out using WATCO in the green and white can, it was an exterior grade, but now I use the Teak, and it's in the blue and white container. Purchased at Menards for about $8 a quart.
I start by wiping on a coat after a 1/2hr, I wipe off excess. The next coat is left on to dry. It takes a long time to dry
I'm real lax when it comes to refinishing ! As far as use, I'm mostly a day tripper, but about once a year, I spend 4 or 5 days in the BWCA.
.
Most of the problems I experience are in the area where the gunnels ride on my wood canoe rack. I reapply in these areas before over wintering. By Spring they are good to go. Again the canoe rack while traveling causes the most harm.
In your situation, it's a toss up. Watco or varnish(polyurethane).
As for the sandwiched hull with the the cedar strip exposed, and binging built with epoxy, you should'nt have any trouble. This is one of the reasons I went to capping the hull with the gunnels.
One advantage of the Watco over varnish, is varnish will show scratches as a white mark. Watco won't.
Good Luck ! And have fun on the water!
Jim
Keep your paddle wet and your seat dry!
Interesting how you 'cap' the hull with how you install the outwale, Jim. I know another builder who did the same thing. It is a nice detail.
I think I've settled on varnish alone for all trim.
However, can anyone see a problem IF, over the years of use, I become dissatisfied with how the varnish on the trim is holding up; I sand it off and apply oil at that point...? Has anyone done that. I don't imagine there being any problems other than possible compatability issues? I did notice that on some cans of oils (WATCO) the instructions say to avoid contact with fiberglass.
I am so new to all this stuff. There is SO much more to it than just putting the 'puzzle' together. I never thought I'd get to this point! Sometimes I catch myself standing in the garage just looking at the canoe in amazement that I created something so beautiful with my hands.
I like to think that I make well thought out decisions, however my wife will tell you that I tend to over-analyze just about everything I do. Maybe that's part of the reason this first boat has taken nearly (gulp) three years!
I think I've settled on varnish alone for all trim.
However, can anyone see a problem IF, over the years of use, I become dissatisfied with how the varnish on the trim is holding up; I sand it off and apply oil at that point...? Has anyone done that. I don't imagine there being any problems other than possible compatability issues? I did notice that on some cans of oils (WATCO) the instructions say to avoid contact with fiberglass.
I am so new to all this stuff. There is SO much more to it than just putting the 'puzzle' together. I never thought I'd get to this point! Sometimes I catch myself standing in the garage just looking at the canoe in amazement that I created something so beautiful with my hands.
I like to think that I make well thought out decisions, however my wife will tell you that I tend to over-analyze just about everything I do. Maybe that's part of the reason this first boat has taken nearly (gulp) three years!
Yep, with old varnish, all the loose, cracked bits and flakes are sanded off and new varnish is applied.
If the varnish has gone cloudy from too much sun or bare wood is showing, it'll have to be sanded off down to the wood if you want the wood tones to return... this is called "wooding down" on yachts and can take a lot of time. With gunwales it shouldn't take too long because the surfaces are fairly simple and straightforward.
To reduce the need for sanding off old, sun-baked varnish, it's good to store canoes out of the sun, eg. a basement or garage.
If the varnish has gone cloudy from too much sun or bare wood is showing, it'll have to be sanded off down to the wood if you want the wood tones to return... this is called "wooding down" on yachts and can take a lot of time. With gunwales it shouldn't take too long because the surfaces are fairly simple and straightforward.
To reduce the need for sanding off old, sun-baked varnish, it's good to store canoes out of the sun, eg. a basement or garage.