Using narrow fibreglass cloth

Jm Eagle · Post by **Jm Eagle** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:59 am

I am about to start the construction of a Freedom 15 in the UK and like many new builders sheathing the hull with epoxy and glass causes some trepidation. Although this is a while away I am even more concerned because the widest cloth I can source in the UK is 48* to 50". I would be grateful for any ideas as to how I should approach the sheathing operation using narrower cloth.
Thanks in anticipation.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:51 pm

A lot of builders apply a double layer of cloth in the "football" area so you can simply overlap two pieces of the narrow cloth. After the epoxy has begun to harden you can use a cabinet scraper to clean up any frayed ends before applying the fill coats.

chrisg · Post by **chrisg** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:06 pm

I overlapped 38 inch cloth in the center, I also put another layer down the middle on the inside, turned out fine. I actually think it makes the stem work easier.

Aljo · Post by **Aljo** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:11 pm

I am also nearing the glassing phase, and the best I could find in Europe is 1m-1,2m width of the cloth, and I also plan to overlap it in the football area, for extra abrasion resistance. I have also sen people overlap the fabric parapendicular to the keel line, and supposedlz thaqt reinforces the boat as the overlaps act as ribs. But I will go for the overlaping in the footbal area,

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:27 pm

Hi,
Having built two boats, the first with narrow cloth joined down the keel and the second with 60" cloth imported from the U.S. I would go for the latter everytime. Trying to keep narrow cloth in place whilst wetting it out is a nightmare. I would pay the shipping costs and get it from the States to save yourself a lot of hassle.I got mine from a company called 'Newfound'. Sorry I can't remember their address but i'm sure others can help.
All the best with your prospective builds and a merry Christmas.

Richard

Jm Eagle · Post by **Jm Eagle** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:55 pm

Thanks for the tips. Does anyone have a foolproof way of keeping narrow cloth in place whilst wetting out. Otherwise it looks like I will have to pay for shipping of 60" cloth from Canada or the States.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:24 pm

You could contact this company to know if they have the 60" cloth and their shipping charges: http://www.vonderlinden.de/index.php?op ... mitstart=7

Post by **Patricks Dad** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:07 pm

I've never used narrow cloth so I really don't know what I'm talking about here (you've been warned). But if I were forced to do this, I would consider the following approach:

1. Lay a piece of tape about an inch away from the keel line down the middle of the boat on the port side. This will leave the entire starboard side untouched and an extra inch of the port side exposed for glassing.
2. Lay a piece of glass on the starboard side of the hull that overlaps the strip of tape a bit. Make sure its weave is straight along the keel line.

3. Put another piece of tape on top of the edge of the glass attaching it to the port side (beyond the first piece of tape you laid down). This will hold that piece of glass in place. The first piece of tape will create a barrier to force the glass to attach along a straight line.
4. Apply epoxy and squeege as usual (don't slop any epoxy beyond the 1st piece of tape!)
5. Once epoxy has set but still green, lift both pieces of tape up and cut along the edge of the glass that is attached to the hull. This should result in the port side + an inch of the starboard side glassed (first coat) with a crisp edge.

6. Repeat the above steps for the port side (again overlapping beyond the keel line an inch - resulting in a 2 inch overlap between the 2 sides).

7. Apply fill coats as usual. Feather epoxy along the 2" center area where there are 2 layers.

Alternatively, you could overlap the cloth much more resulting in 2 layers over most of the hull bottom for extra strength, abrasion resistance (and weight).

I've never done this technique myself but I've seen it demonstrated with pictures somewhere on the web (but couldn't find it with a quick look earlier today)

If I would actually do this, I would likely just put both layers on the boat and wet them out together (because I'd probably be too impatient - this approach will take longer). But I think this approach would create cleaner results.

This would of course be my last resort (I'd work really hard to find cloth wide enough).

You did say you're building a Freedom 15, right? (The Freedom Solo can be built with 50" cloth...)

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:06 am

Hi Glen,
You gave me the contact or the German company. Unfortunately they no longer produce wide cloth. There maybe someone in Europe producing it, but I have yet to find them.
I would say to European builders ,"Bite the bullet and go across the pond."
As well as being easier with wide cloth I managed to keep my Hiawatha under 50 pounds in weight

Richard

chrisg · Post by **chrisg** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:52 am

When glassing the ouside, I laid both pieces on the canoe, then use a few plastic containers that I use to store nails as weights to hold it in place, the wetout was very easy, the cloth did not move around on me, for the inside, I used clothes pins to hold the cloth at the sheer, again laid both pieces in and wetout, went very well, I did about half of the inside by myself before my helper arrived.

Keep in mind that this is a large canoe (21' X 47") with a fairly flat bottom, that probably helped the cloth stay in place.

In my case even 60" cloth was not wide enough, so I had no other choice. But if I could get narrow cloth cheaper than wider stuff, I would/will do it again.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:13 pm

Bear Mountain frequently ships fiberglass cloth overseas.

Glen Smith · Post by **Glen Smith** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:47 pm

You could also contact "Sicomin" in France to see if they have 60" cloth.
http://www.sicomin.com/home.asp?DisplayLang=en

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:18 am

Hi J. M.
Where in the U.K. are you based? I haven't come across any other U.K. builders, may be we could swap notes.

kanoottiveljet · Post by **kanoottiveljet** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:25 am

Hi
We made 5 canoes with 1meter wide fiberglass.
Our workflow was:
-First epoxy precoat (this was recommended by our epoxy suplier)
let it dry partly (not sticky)
- Two lengths of fiberglass layed so that seam is on the keelline. Overlap was about 20cm wide.
- We did use also weights over the seam to hold glass in place
- aplied epoxy over fiberglass

For the inside of hull we choosed to make two seams. And we aplied glass in two phases. First bottom of the hull wiht full glass.

Then narrow widths of glass to sides. Those narrow bands hold easily because of sticky epoxy underneath.

more pictures of epoxy phase:
http://www.kanoottiveljet.fi/?m=201006
http://www.kanoottiveljet.fi/?m=201007

And four completed Rangers:

br
Heikki/ http://www.kanoottiveljet.fi[/img]

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:51 am

Hi Heikki
Beautiful boats. What was their finished weight using metre wide cloth.
All the best for 2011.

Richard

The Bear Mountain Boat Shop

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